Homeowners File Class Action Lawsuit Against Bank Of America For Allegedly Failing To Modify Troubled Mortgages
A class action lawsuit was filed against Bank of America in U.S. District Court, Western District of Washington (Seattle), No. 10-00488, on behalf of homeowners alleging that Bank of America reneged on a promise to modify troubled mortgages as a condition to accepting twenty five billion dollars of federal bailout money, according to a class action news report at news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100323/us_nm/us_bankofamerica_mortgage_lawsuit.
The Bank of America class action lawsuit reportedly alleges that Bank of America agreed to take part in the U.S. Treasury Department’s $75 billion Home Affordable Modification Program (HAMP) since it accepted bailout funds from the Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), but allegedly had an incentive not to modify loans because doing so might cause it to repurchase more loans, collect lower servicing fees, or assess lower default charges because fewer payments would be deemed late.
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Try this website. Fill out the form, demanding your right to see the ORIGINAL
Sorry Beverly–I don’t see the link.
LAW FIRMS/BEWARE:
I hired a law firm (1st American Law Center, CA) over a year ago to help me with BOA. They, however, were just as evil, equally as incompetent. Worse yet, I paid them $3,500, only for this firm to be RAIDED by the FBI!
The depths that some will go to so as to prey on others is truly devastating..
Phoenix
Phoenix …
Just noticed your post. I can’t say I’m surprised. These days nothing much shocks me. Interesting story, though. Does it appear online anyplace?
Did you look through the 17 point list? or see my introduction to Randy and the other new folks?
Wow, I kind of wish my home was not under contract and in foreclosure because I sure would like to fight using all the techniques and ideas I have read so far. I love a challenge. I am wondering if BOA will deny the sales contract just so they can get my house. If I short-sell, they lose a lot of money. Anyway, my foreclosure has been pushed back because of the contract and I asked the banks attorney’s for my note. They supplied me with a copy, but it has Universal American Mortgage on it. That was my original loan company. Then it was bought by Countrywide and now BOA. I am told by my short sale attorney that, and I quote “There was an assignment of mortgage in October of 2009. It is recorded at the county.” Really? Hmm, maybe she should not be trusted either. I applied for my modification back in 2008. How can I apply for a modification with BOA in 2008 if they did not acquire it until 2009?
Resource for you all; this guy TRAINS attorneys in beating the servicers- ( see this PBS story- http://www.maxbankruptcybootcamp.com/blog )
he can refer you to one of these trained attorneys in your state;
http://www.maxbankruptcybootcamp.com/blog
Lo,
I contacted Max Gardner’s office and they told me to look on the bootcamp page for an attorney in my area. Funny thing is, BOA trustee was on the list. I say this not to discredit Max Gardner but to caution BOA is up to date on his teachings…at least in NC anyway.
sorry here is the link to the PBS story;
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2010/10/your-mortgage-questions-answered-consumer-lawyer-max-gardner.html
New posts up on savvygal.tumblr.com
I plan to order a magnet for my car—what a fab idea! We all need to stick together on this.
Anyone looking for a lawyer, I have a few legit ones I can recommend.
Or, at the rate B of A is going, I will be out of law school by the time they clean up this mess!
savvygalmichelle@me.com
I need an attorney in NC. I have done a lot of research but I just do not have time to learn all of the court procedures for filing ect. I would love to find one in my area. I do have one on voice mail to call back tomorrow but if you are aware of one in the area that is up to date on all of this, please let me know. Thanks
Call me at 323-309-7567. I know a few attorneys in L.A. and N.Y. that handle cases throughout the U.S. Depending on your situation, Don is right that it can be better to file Pro Se, but I fully understand if you want some help. I think we all need to keep their legal office as clogged up with as many cases as we possibly can!!!
I would suggest “pro se” for those who have the time and confidence, are willing to learn law, and be willing to eat, sleep, and breathe their case (having an off-the-record attorney friend can help too).
It’s like slaughtering your own hogs – there’s gonna be a lot of work involved and mess you’d rather not have to deal with – but it’s inevitable if you want to taste that smoked ham..
We are interested in joining this class action lawsuit. We have been attempting to get a mortgage modification for a year, were turned down for allegedly not submitting paperwork that we had submitted numerous times. Late they said we were accepted and sent us a modification agreement to sign, get notarized and FexEx back. We sent it back by the deadline and they sent it back saying the notary was not acceptable. Now they will not return my calls. Is there anywhere we can appeal their decision?
Patrick/Amy,
In what state are you geographically located? If you are in NC, NCAC 03M .0702 governs their communications with you.
In their last transmittal, it is required by law they give you a contact and a name of someone who has the authority to reconsider any denial.
04 NCAC 03M .0702 Requirements for Mortgage Servicers to Communicate Effectively with Borrowers Regarding Loss Mitigation
(a) A mortgage servicer shall acknowledge, in writing, a borrower’s loss mitigation request no later than 10 business days after the request. The acknowledgement must identify any information needed from the borrower in order for the mortgage servicer to consider the borrower’s loss mitigation request. For purposes of this Rule and Rule .0703 of this Subchapter, a loss mitigation request is considered received by a servicer upon the borrower or the borrower’s agent contacting the servicer at the address, phone or other contact information required to be provided to borrowers in a notice complying with G.S. 53-244.111(22).
(b) A mortgage servicer shall respond to a loss mitigation request from a borrower no later than 30 business days after the receipt of all information necessary from the borrower to assess whether or not a borrower qualifies for any loss mitigation programs offered by the mortgage servicer.
(c) A mortgage servicer shall include in a final response denying a loss mitigation request the reason for the denial and contact information for a person at the mortgage servicer with authority to reconsider the denial. In addition, the denial shall also include the following statement, in a boldface type and in a print no smaller than the largest print used elsewhere in the main body of the denial: “If you believe the loss mitigation request has been wrongly denied, you may file a complaint with the North Carolina Office of the Commissioner of Banks website, http://www.nccob.gov.”
History Note: Authority G.S. 53-244.110(7); 53-244.118(a);
Eff. June 1, 2010.
BofA’s denial letter to me failed to meet this criteria and as such, is just one of the many areas of contention to be brought out when we finally collide at the courthouse.
Are you in NC Keith?
Amy,
Yes – twelfth generation of Tarheel. I’m about forty minutes due west from the coasts of the Brunswick Isles.
Our AG Roy Cooper happens to be the NAAG Executive Committee President and as such, I believe, will prove a sympathetic ear to those who have been victimized by the mortgage scam and corruption.
Keith,
I did not realize you were from NC as well. May I ask who your trustee is?
Amy,
I have a Countrywide mortgage and the trustee on my DoT is listed as:
Ctc Real Estate Services
400 Countrywide Way
Simi Valley, CA 93065-6298
Does anyone know how to become a part of a class action lawsuit? I have been in a battle with BAC home loan services for a year and a half. I have contacted my attorney general…Bof A wont return his letters/calls. I’ve been lied to and mislead for so long, I’m not sure which end is up anymore. I got a call this morning saying they are going to accelerate and start foreclosure again!! I’ve been making my modified payment for 11 months!! Here is my story, if anyone has advise, please help!
In the fall of 2008 my husband and I both lost our jobs. We heard that Bank of America was offering home modifications, so we applied. We were accepted after about a 5 month wait. It took until December 2009 to get the modification agreement. We signed it and had it notarized and sent it back in the overnight envelope provided. we started making our modified payment. I started calling about 3 weeks after I had sent in the modification papers. The phone representative told me they had recieved my papers but it might take a few weeks to get everything applied. So I made the January payment, February payment, march Payment, and the may payment. I got a call from a friend saying that my home was listed in the paper as selling due to foreclosure on April 5th. Keep in mind I have all my checks front and back to show they were recieved by BAC home loans. I immediately started calling. I called for a week straight and got so many different stories. One person would tell me they could see my modification agreement, another would say they couldn’t find any record of it and then would confirm the sale date. I finally got a lady that told me I would need to reapply for a modification because they receieved my original payment and modification papers one day late so they were null and void. My next question was, were has my money been going if they have not been applying it to my account? Once again I got the run around. I had to call the missing payments department, who had a terrible time finding my payments. When I produced checks, a copy of the certified check, etc, they then found that since my payment were not the full amount (from my original note) they were only the modified amount they applied the first one to fees and the rest they put in a “fund”. So all this time I’ve been making payments based on a modification, my account was going into foreclosure and accuring fees and charges at a rapid pace. I got another modification agreement in the mail. This one was dropping my payment an additional $100 a month from the original modification BUT since so many fees and charges and missing payment(remember they took my money but didn’t apply it) they are tacking an additional $10000 to my note. The way I see it, the govt. gave them money to grant these modifications, which they do…then they don’t honor them and take exponetial fees and interest to the note. BoA is in the long run going to get way more out of my note than if they had granted the first modification.
The foreclosure notice was put in our local paper. My credit is affected. Now my mortgage is way more than the house is worth and my husband and I are having a very difficult time staying together due to the stress of this mess. I have been scammed and fraud has been committed by Bank of America Home Loans. We need help.
I have a situation similar to so many on this post! I too fell on hard times and applied for the modification. It was granted…after 6 months of waiting, and going back and forth with the hope team. 3 additional months go by, December 2009 we get modification papers to notarize and send back, which we do…in thier pre paid fed ex overnight envelope. I make 4 payments my new modified payment…then I get told my home is going into foreclosure. I bet I talked to 20 different reps in 5 days. I got so many stories from, don’t worry, you are in a workout agreement, we cant forclose on you during that time to yes the sale date is in 5 days. Keep in mind they have kept my last 4 payments and applied them where??? First they told me that they couldn’t find my payments, once I produced the cleared cashiers check from the bank and my canceled checks they told me I’d have to contact the lost payment department. Who finally found that my 1st modified payment was applied to fees and the others were sitting in a fund because get this, they say they received the modification agreement one day late. Nobody bothered to tell me and they accepted my payments! I was told that I would have to apply for a new modification. Amazingly I was granted a new modification within 20 days…the first one took 9 months to get! They even lowered my payment an additional $100 a month! BUT here is the kicker, they added $12000 to my note for attorney fees, late charges, and lack of payments (since they hadn’t applied my payment) Because we were desperate we signed the papers for this second modification. We recieved a letter and were approved. They even wanted to send out a notary to sign some papers. That person never showed up. Keep in mind, I continued to make my first modification payment. 2 months later, we recieved a 3rd modification in the mail…adding $13000 to our principle balance. I wrote a nice long letter explaining why I was not going to sign this 3rd modification…since I’d been granted 2 others and I was NOT willing to add $13000 to my balance. Just this morning I got a call saying they are going to accelerate my debt into foreclosure Dec 1st. I am going to write all the agencies suggested above. I would really like legal representation…I just can’t afford it on my own. I think there is enough people to get a class action suit…
If I stole $13000+ from someone it would be a felony…but since they are doing it as a bank, it makes it legal?? I dont think so! My husband and I are having a hard time keeping our marriage together with financial hardships, this was just the icing on the cake!
Kim …
Oddly, my post to Randy below ended up on this page below yours.
It applies equally to you. The 17 point list I mention is on the previous page.
You story directly reflects almost all of ours. There is a pattern of behavior here.
Many times I’ve commented that all these things are “alleged” out of legal necessity.
The one thing we have to ask ourselves is the question of whether these things that are repeated over and over … so-called mistakes … so-called “bungling” … is bungling at all.
Does the 5th largest corporation in the United States make these mistakes this consistently and this often? Does a regulated financial institution Statutorily mandated to be reliable and trustworthy foul up this badly?
It’s up to each of us to answer, then act on our own intuition.
Not to get all “patriotic” on you, but this nation was founded on the strength of the individual. Our heritage is to be strong and smart … individually … and say “no” when it’s time to say no, with the Meat of Right behind us.
Randy …
It’s a complicated situation.
Seems the time has come to write a “First Day Orientation” for newbies. Anybody else feel free to chime in. Sorry if this is going to be a little long-winded, but it’s simply the situation we find ourselves in.
First off, if you haven’t been able to tell, for the most part we’re all homeowners just like yourself, trapped and going in circles in this “alleged” modification program.
Now and then a lawyer will post, but frankly it’s likely their bar association isn’t pleased. People are supposed to go TO lawyers, they’re not encouraged to come to us. In other words, there isn’t a parade of lawyers staring at their computer screens waiting with baited-breath to become our rescuers. In this situation there are no heros. We have to be our own heros.
The next thing you have to recognize is the fact that you are being victimized. Now, it’s necessary to add the word “allegedly” since legally the banks haven’t been “proven” in a court of law to be guilty. In any case, most of us (if not all) originally trusted the bank to perform professionally and ethically, and to know what they were doing. After all, they’re LEGISLATED (by law) to BE ethical.
For the most part, we arrived here because we came to understand we were being screwed.
So your first real hurdle is to get over the idea the bank can be trusted … in any way. Many of us cling to the idea that “we-just-want-our-modification-and-to-get-on-with-our-lives.”
It’s not that easy.
It’s pretty much become the consensus of the folks on this blog/forum/board that the banks never intended for us to get a modification at all, and were merely priming us for foreclosure and repossession to PROFIT from our homes, regardless of whether or not it was legal. After all, that’s what their stockholders and boards of directors demand. It appears as though it’s evolved into “profit at any cost,” whether ethical or even legal.
Many of us believe their appearance of “incompetence” isn’t incompetence at all, but planned and implemented as precisely as a military battle plan. If you ask a lawyer how to “get away with something,” it’s likely the lawyer will say, “You can’t look malicious to a court, but you CAN look stupid. A court will forgive stupidity, but it’s required to punish malice.”
Some people have started this modification process with pristine credit, merely INQUIRING about a renegotiation/modification, and got sucked into the black hole of this [alleged] scheme, with their credit ruined and their house in or facing foreclosure. There have even been people state that they never even asked to be in the “program,” but found themselves caught in it. Most simply believed they could negotiate a modification through TARP (earlier government program) or HAMP, so they enrolled.
The TARP program no longer applies to anything you do with Bank of America since they paid back every last penny of their $45 Billion “stimulus package.” The assumption is the bank wanted to get out from under TARP rules. Since then, the “hook” to snare you has been the HAMP program from Mister Obama, where he’ll pay the bank $1,000 to talk to you about a modification.
That’s a very important sentence.
The banks are ONLY obligated to TALK to you, not ACTUALLY give you a modification. They’re paid whether they modify or not. And modifying under HAMP makes them lose money. Actually, modifying AT ALL makes them lose money, so they do what they can to wiggle out of it. If they can, they find some excuse not to modify under HAMP (often by letting Fannie or Freddie deny it for them), and if they HAVE to modify, they do it privately, outside the program, only reducing payments by about half that of a modification under HAMP.
Yes, this is complicated. That’s the way they like it. They want you to become frustrated, confused, exasperated, and would actually prefer you just gave up and simply moved out, so they can profit from your property …
… all “allegedly” of course.
What many people don’t realize is that the homeowner has Rights … and lots of them … far more than we think. Suing, even in a class action, is only ONE of them. In fact, it’s been pointed out (by an attorney, much to the frowns of his bar association, I’m sure) that class actions can actually be LESS effective or beneficial to a homeowner. MANY individual lawsuits will tie up the banks’ legal departments AND homeowners will get more individualized attention by the courts.
It’s also been pointed out that filing YOURSELF, without an attorney (it’s called “pro se”), can also have benefits. It’s not easy and courts don’t like it one bit, but you have options in court a lawyer wouldn’t DARE use, because they depend on the court to make their living … we don’t.
Essentially, when it comes right down to it, you PERSONALLY have a decision to make … or several, actually. A) Do you simply want your modification and to get on with your life? B) Do you want to sue, meaning go to all the time and effort it takes to get a court to FORCE the bank to do something? C) And if you sue, do you want to individually, or with a group?
If you want to work towards a modification, there’s a 17 point “getting started” list about a third of the way down this page of posts. Examine that on how you might proceed.
Whether you want your modification or to sue, the fact remains that your education has only just begun. An ignorant homeowner is precisely what the banks want, so the best way for you to protect yourself is to learn how this game is played. Unfortunately, this IS a game to them. It’s called “How to Profit from Homes at Any Cost,” and that relies on you not knowing your Rights.
If you want to sue, it’s not going to be easy to find a lawyer, but they are out there and class actions are forming, as well as people learning and preparing to file individually or even without a lawyer … pro se.
Sue or not, you should still look though the 17 point list. You’re not alone in this. Much of defending yourself is taking personal responsibility AND holding others responsible, not only the banks, but the politicians, branches of law enforcement and agencies responsible for overseeing the banks.
I know it’s a lot to ask, but read as much of this forum as you have time for. Lots of people have had very valuable things to say, and you can benefit from their knowledge, research and experience. Learn to Google the subject matter and learn the meaning of terms and words.
Holler with questions. There’s lots of folks here willing to help. Some arrived ready to fight. Some had no idea they had to, and learned there’s really no choice.
Besides, in the end, it might actually end up being … well … “fun” … as some of us are beginning to see it.
Due to page juggling, the 17 point getting started list is now on the previous page. Simply click on the light blue “Previous Comments” link at both the top and bottom of this column.
The 17 point list now also appears on this page near the bottom of the column.
Curtis, Vickie, Carol Robinson-Huntley, Skywriter, Calvin, Susanne, Mike, Lori & and and victims of Bank of America residing in DC, MD, VA and/or NC:
I am interested in speaking with you all off-line as my wife & I have been facing this very same issue since January 2009. Our home finally went to foreclosure on 10/7/2010 while still under a review for a modification loan. The same nonsense we faced with the lack of responses during our modification, we are also facing as we have requested a rescinsion of sale.
I am calling around today for attornies who would be willing to assist in initiating a class action law suit against BOA here in VA and the surrounding states such as DC, MD, & NC. I have read each story here and could not believe that so many of us have been victimized. They are looking to put us out in November, me, my wife, my 16 year old daughter, 9 year old son, and 5 year old daughter, but we are not leaving without a fight.
I am also looking to make contact with Congressman Randy Forbes office again.
Please contact me either by e-mail @ daquan_reinhardt@yahoo.com or by cell phone @ 240-353-9996 or home @# 804-275-0144.
Daquan …
As the “unofficial greeter” …
Welcome to the Fight.
We’ve all been through the shock and emotional stress you elude to. What many of us have done is taken that energy and redirected it to its most effective use … self-education and tenacity.
You sound well on your way.
Hello everyone. Just wanted to provide a tid-bit of info that might be benificial to those of you who have an FHA loan and sadly have Bank of America or any other mortgage company. I called FHA today to submit a complaint about Bank of America after reading some clauses on my Note. I also wanted to confirm something that I pretty much knew. I asked the gentleman if it was legal for a mortgage company to send a Notice of Intent to Accelerate BEFORE becoming 3 months behind. I told the representative that I missed one payment (November 2009) and continued to send payments but I received a Notice of Intent to Accelerate in January 2010 which I have in my posession and luckily never threw away. I had only missed one month! The representative stated that it IS against FHA regulations for them to do that and he was somewhat surprised that they jumped the gun so quickly. Well, the truth is that from the moment that Bank of America purchased my loan from Taylor, Bean & Whitaker in August 2009, they knew they would make a good chunk of change if I defaulted especially since I have been paying mortgage insurance since I initiated the loan. They knew it! Sadly for them, they had to go against a determined woman who will scratch and claw her way so that she can keep her home, not for her but for her children (that being me, of course ;). I truly believe that if you have an FHA loan and have been harrassed illegally by Bank of America as I have been or just wanted to complain about their hundred of other malicious practices or just trying to save their home, please call FHA at (877) 622-8525 and then press option 1. You will have to have your FHA case number which is on your loan documents before calling. Best of luck to all. 🙂
Isabel …
Great going! Interesting that when you start banging the woodwork, you can get the bugs out.
What you’ve literally started is what’s called a “forensic audit” of your mortgage … which literally means going back and looking at all the details to find out what’s wrong. You found something wrong.
Obviously, you can easily apply the expression “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire.”
One thing that law enforcement officers use as a standard part of their routine … a “suspect” … and it could be anyone, including someone getting a traffic ticket … is given the benefit-of-the-doubt … UNLESS … they catch you in any sort of lie … even a small one.
After that, everything you say or do is suspect … EVERYTHING. You’ve crossed a line that tags you as suspicious.
Can’t we apply that here? Where there’s one lie or violation of trust, wouldn’t there be more?
Every mark is a mark against them, and ammunition in court … or … even just to pressure them to perform their Statutorily mandated behavior.
I am having this same exact problem in Palm Beach, Florida. During the start of my modification, no one knew what was going on and it wasn’t until I emailed EVERYONE at BOA, including the CEO that I actually spoke to someone who knew what their job was. There were multiple times that they “needed me to re-send paper work because they didn’t receive it” yet, I emailed it, faxed it, and even sent them hard copies and then would call to make sure they received it somehow and they always said yes. Recently I found out that that was just a ploy to buy them more time. Then I thought everything was fine and dandy with my modification and things were going as planned when all the sudden I was getting turned down by credit cards and then one of my existing credit cards lowered my spending limit by half claiming “delinquent funds in another loan”. Whenever I talk to anyone at BOA I get the run around and no one ever seems to know what is going on! I call on a weekly basis. After threatening them with a lawsuit, they finally “said” they would reverse my bad credit from the months of May-August but it would take 30-60 days, by then I will have another 4 months of delinquent funds. My credit was stellar until this situation, and BOA is the cause of all of my recent problems. Please anyone with any help contact me at fla5h3@aol.com or melashley105@yahoo.com
Jonathan …
Please see my note to Mike and Jerri below, or my note to Randy above. I hope you find them helpful.
And one more opinion from the forum’s loud-mouth …
GO VOTE!
All, here are some interesting options of classaction lawsuits on a national level against MERS and BOFA, I have talked with them and am considering signing on if they check out;
bofalawsuit.com
jointheclassaction.com
LO …
Gotta play Devil’s Advocate on this one for a minute.
I glanced through the Fee Agreement on “JoinTheClassAction”.
First of all, did you see how LONG it was? Also, did you happen to catch that you can’t sue for more than $75K with them? And that from the $75K they will take 40%? That’s $30,000 leaving you with $45,000, and that’s your limit under the suit … IF you win at all, or even win that much.
Something to consider.
There are also statements that you “may seek” more in damages, but it does NOT state that they will represent you to do so. They specifically state that you will seek damages LESS than $75,000.
What if your case is worth more?
It also limits litigation on the grounds of MERS, and only “peripherally” mentioning “Lenders.” This is NOT a lawsuit against Bank of America directly, only indirectly … POSSIBLY … through MERS.
Another important clause …
“Services do not include assistance with respect to seeking injunctive or other immediate relief with respect to a foreclosure or eviction.”
That means while you’re suing MERS, and only possibly “mentioning” Bank of America, the bank could easily continue with foreclosure, possession and eviction. They say you can use them for “injunctive services” but you’ll have to PAY for those.
These are just a couple things I found with a GLANCE … so be VERY careful making your decision.
Lawyers aren’t in business to “save” you, necessarily. They’re in business to make money. I’d be VERY careful of fancy, glitzy, sharp-looking web sites that pull on your heart-strings and look like miraculous saviors swooping down to save you from the big, bad bank.
Happy, smiling faces on a web site does not necessarily mean YOU’LL be smiling when all is said and done.
Again, this is merely playing Devil’s Advocate, but smooth talkers and glitz, glitter and blind trust is how they’ve been fooling us for decades.
Personally, I’d like to see a few more plaintiffs driving brand new Mercedes, often the vehicle of choice for attorneys.
Lastly, “BofALawsuit” site is a bit confusing. It implies national … MAYBE … but only, specifically states California. I get the impression it’s only for California, and the suit is already filed. It’s the one I commented on yesterday where I loved the phrases it used.
So could I join from Pennsylvania? Nope. It only lists ARTICLES about other suits from Illinois, Nevada, Washington State and one Countrywide suit affecting 11 States. Plus, there’s no information on the law firm or any other detail, other than the suit itself listed twice.
That one isn’t something necessarily to consider … except perhaps as one, big Red Flag.
Just be careful before you sign.
Our situation is the same here in Indiana. We are also looking for a lawyer to help us with our situation. Which is no different than anyone else. Our loan was orginally with Countrywide. Of course BofA came to their rescue and bought them out, so that is how we ended up with BofA for our home mortgage. In 2007 I lost my job due to an illness, in 2009 we began to struggle. We asked for asssistance and were told to go online and apply for the Making Home Affordable program. We did just that, we sent in a letter of hardship, sent in all the necessary paperwork and then we waited. I called everyweek to see what was going on. BofA told us our information was in review for a modification. We were also told a special forebearance was on our account and we didn’t have to make payments as they were working on a modification for us. This lasted the entire year of 2009. I called, complained, asked when we would get our mod. Same messages it is in review. Then in Dec of 2009 BofA changed their tune and said they had no recieved our packet. Duh???? What were the reviewing and working on? In January of 2010 we started receiving forclosure notices and I called again, complained to the FTC, and to the Making Home Affordable dept with United States Government. Within 1 week of do that we recieved a packet in the mail with a modification. We signed it, had it notirized, sent it back to BofA with the money it required. The money went somewhere, our modification never took place and we were still in the same boat as before. I complaind again, we recieved a second set of papers to modify our loan. This time it required us to make 3 trial payments, which we did. Those payments also do not show on our history. After the 3 months of trial payments, we received yet our 3 set of modification papers again requiring us to send in a certain amount of money. All the while our credit was being ruined. Every payment we have sent in has been inappropriately applied to our loan. All contracts with BofA have been breached, they have taken our money without reporting we are making payments, and if I call in to find out why are payments are missing, they don’t know where our payments have gone. Also, our payment amount is now back to the orginal payment we had when we started our efforts for a “TRUE” modification. If there is a Lawyer or a Class Action suit we can join we would like the information as soon as possible. Our time is running out, and we have no where to turn. BofA should be liable. Let’s all stand together to put BofA in their place!
Mike and Jerri …
Seems, over time, the task of dropping the “reality pill” on folks first coming across this web site has fallen to me … which I don’t mind in the least … really. Happy to oblige.
But you might like to read my note to Randy above. He’s just arrived himself, and I though I’d attempt to condense the group’s conversation into a single post for the benefit of anyone new.
The note should help. The “impression” of what this site might be isn’t necessarily what it turns out to be … but … with all the experience, research and input of so many folks, it may actually turn out a better resource than you thought.
Your story is so much like most of us here … “We hear you.” It’ll just be sort-of necessary to orient yourself to what you’ve gotten into in order to fix it.
Best of luck and Fight the Good Fight.
Thanks for the comments Don!
We have not given up on working on this ourselves, I just get on my soapbox once in a while and have to let off some steam…if you know what I mean.
What we have done thus far is: Contacted the Federal Trade Commission, the Indiana Attorney General among others in our government including our state and local politicians.
I am now working on getting some files to the Indiana Attorney General which they requested.
I also requested a copy of our current note from from BofA, which was a waste of time! Like many others, I was told “We do not have the legal right to obtain recieve copies….yah, yah, yah! This I checked with a good attorney friend and he stated; “They can say this just because they don’t want to produce the documents to us or perhaps they simply can’t find the documents.” The good news; We as homeowners have every right to have and to request copies of our signed contractual documents.
I have found many of our documents both what I have and things I have either persuaded someone at a call center to send me or, gathered from our BofA online account. I am sorting through them to see if I can find any other discrepancies.
I also have read through your 17 point information, which it looks like I may have some of it done. But there is a lot more for us to do.
Thanks again for the information.
My question is when I’m on the BofA web site it shows all my trial payments in which they have had no problems accepting since June 2009 and it slowly knocks of a little of the principal, But it shows that I am $21,000 behind, Also it has a copy of the original NOTE and HUD-1 (Settlement/Closing Statement) from my original lender Home Savings , Then it was sold to Country Wide, And then BofA would those be legal in court ?
Will …
Sounds to me like you need a “forensic audit.”
Again, I’m no lawyer, but I’ve been an amateur student of the principles of law since I could walk.
You’ve examined the generalities of your loan and contract, now you need to get into the detail. Cases are won and lost on the detail. It’s merely (and that’s “merely” knowing full well the work involved) a matter of checking every fact, figure and scrap of paper for validity … validity being the key.
A RESPA letter could be a huge help to getting detail. Even their failure to answer on time or completely could be strikes against them. If it goes to suit, the “discovery” process is similar, where the court requires each side to expose what they know to the other.
Remember, the banks … or any [alleged] perpetrator/defendant … often relies on you giving up. In fact, talk to any lawyer. “Settlements” out of court are perfect examples. One side or the other decides it’s simply not worth it to continue and “settles” rather than getting into the detail and spending time and money in court … OR … they’d really rather not have details exposed in open court.
That’s what “gag agreements” are, too. They settle, then prevent the plaintiff (the complainer) from saying WHY they complained, keeping the perpetrator’s behavior secret.
One thing you’ll notice about many of the lawsuits that have been filed is that a jury trial is literally DEMANDED by the plaintiffs. That gets regular people like you and me sitting on a jury learning and examining the facts … rather than just a judge. It also exposes the details of a case to public scrutiny … with reporters in the “gallery” (audience).
The jury can “retire” to the jury room, consider the case and its facts … AS WELL AS their OPINION of the facts, which a judge is not always capable (or willing) to consider. A jury isn’t “bound” by the same restrictions as a judge.
If a jury sides with a plaintiff, unless their reaction is horribly unfair and unjust, they can impose literal “retribution” on a perpetrator/defendant without being overturned by either the judge overseeing the case or in an appeal of the case later on.
“Drawing a picture,” then proving that picture to be a reality is critical in any law suit, but is particularly critical in jury trials. The complete picture … or even an OPINION of the picture … is in the details.
Go find details.
The current discussion on creating a “repository” of affidavits of peoples’ loan modification horror stories is one of those details that can connect the dots. You can “claim” in court that other people went through the same thing “systemically,” (meaning it happened to a lot of people by DESIGN), but without introducing the evidence of other peoples’ experiences, the court and jury can’t consider the statement.
Not to sound vulgar, but clearly stating the parade of details of their guilt tightens the grip on their “nether regions.”
Don–
You were kidding about the forensic audit–right? These audits
are the latest scams built on/by the in-place loan modification
scammers. There are any number of websites that say stay away from forensic audits. And who wants to pay out $500+ or more to participate in their $250 software purchase. And
lastly–mosts of the forensic auditors want to change upwards
of $1,000 and do not even have in-house backing attorneys.
If I am wrong–I stand corrected but these comments have been my experience and readings. The RESPA/TILA letter(s) are
the way to go–not forensic audits in a world of scams. Bob Mc
Bob …
We’re talking about to different things.
You’re referring to the commercial forensic audit … the ones that are available out there like Big Macs. You’re taking the term in its marketing sense, not by its literal meaning.
I was referring to a forensic audit by its literal meaning … an examination after-the-fact. That’s all the phrase means.
YOU can do a forensic audit. Now, of course, you need to know what you’re looking for, but you can at least START the process.
That’s why I made my comment to Isabel above. She looked at the documentation and found a problem/violation. She’d “started” a forensic audit. When it comes right down to it, that’s all a forensic audit is … looking things over and finding stuff.
I guess I would caution the “subservience” we give to the so-called experts and their so-called expert terms. Just because an expert uses a term, doesn’t mean we aren’t allowed to either use it or understand it.
It’s like a mechanic saying to a car owner, “Your framus spring uncoiled and the hydraulic juxtaposer over-pressurized, making your titan valve give way. It’ll cost eight-hundred to fix.” …
… and you believe him.
Nevermind that it’s complete nonsense.
You probably only needed air in one tire, if anything.
We’re trained from birth in this country to “compartmentalize” our thinking … “That’s not your job” … “Let the experts handle it.” We know what we know and they know what they know and that’s that.
That’s also how they can victimize us … and they DO.
“Experts” merely have more exper-ience than we do … or the time to do something we don’t have the time to learn. But I would contend that this is not hiring a plumber to put in pipes … this is DEFENDING YOUR HOME … which I’d want to know a little about that while I was doing it.
I’d also want to know a little about plumbing so I knew I wasn’t getting screwed … or have a trusted buddy check out his work if I didn’t.
Anyway, all I’m saying is this situation should be bringing you out of that “leave it to the experts” frame of mind, PARTICULARLY since leaving it up to the “experts” is partly how we got into this mess.
Self-education and tenacity … self-education and tenacity.
Did I mention self-education and tenacity?
**smile**
“What one man can do, another man can do.”
Correction … “two different things”
… or woman.
**another smile**
Don–OK, I see it now. And while we are on the subject
of forensic audits, to the extent that you get a decent
reply to your RESPA letter to BoA, for example, you can
go a long way toward getting your own forensic
analysis done. And there is suitable info available on
a number of website to help you along. Sorry to pester
you. Bob Mc
As someone who is currently in Law School, I am with Don 100%. They use a lot of “legalese” and jargon to make even the simplest statement sound complicated!
Folks,
I know there is much “talk” directing towards class actions on this board – and that’s fine – I’m not belittling that approach. That avenue needs diligent pursuit.
However, here’s my caution. When you adjoin with attorneys who have filed a CA, you have no recourse outside that litigation, meaning you forfeit your right to fair compensatory damages not specifically enumerated within that suit. Also (call me a conspiracy theorist) it is possible your attorney might be persuaded by other attorneys (through other sources from those with deep pockets) to accept a smaller settlement or not challenge quite as aggressively in exchange for something not immediately tangible, yet would be beneficial to that firm after a settlement is reached. Simply put, be careful that the attorney you select isn’t “on the take” by lenders and can be influenced to compromise your case. Money talks and banks have a lot with which to sway influence.
Don’t trust them!
Therefore, I believe for all who can and will, you should consider filing “pro se” and get some of these criminal cases before jurors.
It is my solemn conviction that should the damages done persons’ properties be laid out before jurors so they can grasp a sense of the corruption, the gross incompetence, and depth of fraud, those jurors will see the magnitude of concern borrowers have for their investments caused by the deliberate breach of fiduciary trust committed by the banks and find in favor of the borrower ceasing to continue pouring funds into those risk until reasonable assurances are established to return titles to their prior “security”. Those jurors would, as well, hold those who perpetrated and promoted those crimes responsible, both criminally and civilly.
I’m seeking that route….
Keith, I completely agree with you. A class action lawsuit is something my husband and I talked about months ago but decided not to go that route because it is truly not worth it. We would be just another fish in that huge barrel full of many other fish and the compensation will be minimal for all the hell we’ve been through. A class action limits you and the ones that will really get paid are the attorneys not the people that have truly suffered the problem. Pro se is definitely a fantastic option as you and Don have also mentioned. The court is usually more permissive towards people representing themselves and the sky’s pretty much the limit. It is wise to read up on court etiquette so we can limit our mistakes due to our limited legal knowledge on how to behave and speak in front of a judge. I personally have done so much investigating and I have so much evidence that I believe that my husband and I can represent ourselves with no problem and win. I will definitely need to go to the library and check out some self-help legal books and hopefully I can be able to type up an accurate counterclaim response when I receive my foreclosure notice. A counterclaim will force the lender to sue you and sue them in return in your own backyard and it will be more cost-effective. With Bank of America and many other lenders, there might be a venue issue if you initiate the lawsuit first and that would mean that you would have to sue Bank of America in their backyard which will probably be in North Carolina and you would also have to cough up all the initial filing costs. With all the info provided on this forum, we should be able to bring this monster down.
Also, it is more harmful to Bank of America for them to fight many individual lawsuits than to fight just a few larger ones (class actions). We would be more like pirahnas eating away at a killer whale but that way everyone is guaranteed a bite. Something to think about.
The fan blades are beginning to connect with foreign material!
Judge’s Bombshell Ruling Exposes The Biggest Flaw In Obama’s Disastrous Foreclosure Program
“…. In order to qualify for a mortgage mod, homeowners are told to stop paying their mortgage, and then when things don’t work out they’re in default.
Watch this case for precedent.”
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/kaveh-khast-foreclosure-2010-11
Let’s say …
You’re standing in a crowd of people. The occasion isn’t really relevant, just that there’s a reason for many people to be in a place for an event or occasion.
Because of its public nature, there’s police officers patrolling the crowd.
One cop comes up to you and literally points out that your hip pocket, your “wallet pocket” is buttoned and secure. Even more, he insists that you pull on your wallet to expose the leather.
At that moment, a fairly innocent looking fellow reaches for your wallet, takes it, and walks away.
The police officer states, “There. That’s better.”
Does ANY of this make the SLIGHTEST sense?
well, I surprised them. They fed ex me modification yesterday after 12 year and the first page was white and stated I had until Nov 10 yet throughout the agreement it stated nov 3. I work for an attorney so I called her and stated I did not want to sign becuase it had the wrong date throughout she was so nice and said cant you just sign it and send it back(remember i just recived it yesterday i needed to look over it) so i said wait a min. my attorney got on and she screamed at me saying that I just cant put someone on the phone. she said do mind if we record this conversation and he said no becuase I am recording it to. She would not send anything out stating I did not need to send anyother documents but the agreement and she wouldnt send even a peice of paper stating i have until the tenth but yet she can verbally tell me over the phone/ she was so nice beforehand and once I had an attorney on the phone with me she was pissed. I am going to send it out and then fight becuase 7000 was added to the note if they wouldnt have delayed it that long i wouldnt have that much added. dont you agree they prolong everything to get more money from us and i am filing my own complaint. once i do if you want to do same i will send you a copy and just fill in your information.
Look squarely into the eyes of the worried and ask, “What keeps you awake at night?”
http://blogs.wsj.com/marketbeat/2010/11/03/bank-of-america-selling-or-slapping-blackrock/?KEYWORDS=foreclosure
OK. I want to reiterate that I think clogging up the legal system is the best thing we can do to make our point, but fantasies of a jury trial are just that-fantasies; B of A will SETTLE before a case ever goes in front of a jury.
That said, filing Pro Se is the best option. But, for those that are looking for an attorney referral, I have a few that legitimately help and are willing to offer a discounted rate to friends of Savvy Gal. Let me know if you’re interested.
Savvy
Dear Savvy–
What has your opinion or research been about joining a class
action and filing your own suit ‘pro se’? Is this allowable under the law? Is it prudent? What say you?
Bob-
I have a new plan of attack.
I am NOT putting details here or on my blog, as I know B of A has spies. However, I am happy to discuss via phone or personal email.
Savvy
bob give us a call with yr new plan of attack
Qe2 …
Keith … I missed your previous reference.
Glenn Beck isn’t my favorite presenter, but he explains what QE2 is here …
http://video.foxnews.com/v/4402349/what-the-heck-happened-in-the-election/?playlist_id=87485#/v/4401963/beck-the-hard-work-is-just-beginning/?playlist_id=87485
This directly relates to our dilemma. These are all the same people.
Second half here …
youtube.com/watch?v=2LUQHAFXWQo&annotation_id=annotation_515414&feature=iv
just had a call from “ernest” from bunch of a*******-this time, it sounds like it was not the “home retention unit” in India, but in the States. when i told him the conversation was being recorded, he hung up.
it is OK for them to record us, but not us recording them.
Why?
Wolfgang …
It’s literally an “adversarial tactic.”
What that means is that, in their perspective, whatever they do no one else has the right to question, but they can question EVERYTHING you do (or don’t do). They literally terminate even the possibility that someone could question by refusing scrutiny … like being recorded. That’s why they’re so upset when you bring in politicians, regulatory agencies like the O.C.C., or law enforcement like the Attorney General.
“What?!? We’re not doing anything wrong! How dare you!”
Then they get vindictive …
“allegedly.”
It’s the ultimate bullying. It’s arrogance run amuck.
I say … naturally, they can refuse to be recorded … BUT … if they refuse to discuss and negotiate by hanging up, they are refusing their Statutory duty to service your loan, particularly under HAMP, which requires them to EXHAUST all “loss mitigation options” (renegotiating your contract) before foreclosing.
As a State and federally REGULATED … by LAW … financial institution, you’d think they’d WANT to be recorded so these agencies and law enforcement officials can CONFIRM they’re performing according to the law.
Your “Why?” question is completely valid. Their position is completely indicative (pointing a finger) at wholly suspicious behavior … something these agencies and law enforcement officials should pay CLOSE attention to.
There’s no argument when it’s recorded, unless they claim it was manufactured. Without a recording, it’s your word against theirs. If they’ve recorded you, they can pick and choose what to use against you, as well as deny they said what they said by denying the existence of the conversation or a recording.
It would be interesting if one of these cases went to court, and the homeowner was able to subpoena recordings. It’s not too far fetched to imagine recordings are used to “categorize” homeowners to taylor their home repossession tactics … noting and attacking your weaknesses.
It’s also not too far fetched to imagine that “Delete” and “Erase” buttons would be frantically located and pressed if they received a subpoena.
Am I just being paranoid?
They why … as you ask … can’t we record THEM?
Correction … “Then why …”
Well, they can use all the legal terminology that they want…the papers they send are less than “legal”…..I got my modification papers recently. My attorney says they’ll be hard pressed to make them stand up in court…my husband’s last name isn’t even on the papers!!! I called their attention to it…and they said “we asked them to change it and they refused”…I asked “THEY WHO?” ….and they claim Freddie Mac denied the request. WHAAAAAT? So, we signed them AS IS. Our modification is NO modification. It’s actually a forbearance agreement. The attorney said that we could really “play chicken” with them…if we want to but the stakes are high. As for me (and I can hear you all gasping now lol)….we signed off on the papers yesterday and we’re hoping for the best. My husband is ill and I really need to take the time to focus on his medical needs. This whole process has been an emotional beat-down. The attorney said if we were younger with no severe medical problems…he would suggest playing chicken. He said there is little chance that they can actually produce the note. We could end up owning our home free and clear….BUT…he said selling the home any time in the future would be next to impossible because our title would be such a mess. I don’t really care about that…but I need to make things less traumatizing around here now…and for my kids maybe…in the future. ALSO….I called the “Hope Team”…..that was fruitless. They basically said to sign what I have….the papers aren’t going to get any better….they are overwhelmed and making one time offers. They also said they had never seen a modified amount go up so much. My trial payment was $1046….the end result was a modified payment of $1499….with a 5% interest rate…not the 2% originally offered. I need to relax for awhile….then I’m thinking of suing for the emotional abuse. This is the most disgusting company in existence. I did get one laugh tho….my papers arrived at BOA today….the person who signed for them …last name….PIGONE….ok, I’m sure that’s not how it’s pronounced….but they wear the name well…..
How many of you have been foreclosed on twice for the same home. Once in Aug. and once in Oct. Now they are sending me letters about fees that are going to be added to the original loan. BOA called one day and asked when was I going to make a payment, I told them they had foreclosed on my home, the man on the other end did not even know, I told him to look on his computer and gave him the date. He did, and said I’m sorry and hung up…
Jeanette…I received that letter today myself. I had to chuckle (please don’t take offense) when I read your letter….THESE PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS! It reminded me of the conversation that I had with a BOA employee that I had a conversation with in August. I received a letter a full week after papers were due to them…they postmarked the request THE DAY the papers were arrive back to them. I kept telling them that I did NOT receive the letter until that day and I could prove it with a postmark…and he kept repeating…”It’s important that you send your documents in on time.” WHAT? Finally another employee on the line with us told him to think about what he was saying because he was making BOA look incompetent and stupid. YA THINK? ….and again I chuckle….of course at the time….I wanted to crawl through the phone and grab him by the throat….
Got a question. When I request my “note” am I requesting the original one or the one that has BOA’s name on it? I have my original, but Universal American Mortgage is on it, along with that MERS agency. Would BOA have a re-filed note with their names on it?
Beverly…I went and got mine….a certified copy from the county….mine doesn’t show Bank of America….
Careful here …
The original note will be with the company you originally signed with. That’s what created the “deal” or contract. That’s the “instrument” that is subject to all this controversy.
The REAL question is who OWNS it … LEGALLY … meaning tracing who purchased it (however many times) and who is legally entitled to ENFORCE the contract.
This is CRITICAL.
Merely producing (a copy) of the note is NOT enough. Even producing the note itself in NOT enough. Their right to enforce the contract is what matters.
They say … “Ok, here’s the contract.”
You say … “Ok, but where’s your right to enforce and foreclose?”
One is no good without the other.
This is CRITICAL.
Notes are not required to be “rewritten” with the new owner replacing the old. They are sold (usually up the food chain) like stocks or bonds … RETAINING the name of the originator (bank you signed with) since that’s the original contract that proves you’re willing to pay.
Your willingness to pay is the core power of these notes/contracts. It “guarantees” future income to the buyer of the note. When you originally signed, you created (promised) future money.
That’s what all the fuss is about … them TRADING your promise to pay to turn a profit.
MERS was created to “streamline” paperwork … but the talk on the street is that they DESTROYED up to 40% of the 65,000,000 mortgages they service.
They can’t DO that … under the law.
There is NO contract without a CONTRACT … OR … proof of ownership … even if they HAVE the contract.
PROOF OF OWNERSHIP is the key.
I got mine off the county web site. It has all filings related to the property address and ya would think that there would be some filing there with BOA on it…………I wonder if this has to do with that MERS crap.
Beverly …
Again, I have to caution you. You’ve acquired a COPY of your original note, based on what you’ve told us. Apparently, it’s the COPY your county retained. What I’ve been discussing is the pulp-paper-and-blue-ink physical original of your note.
Not only does the BANK have to prove they have it … THE BANK … not the county … they have to prove they OWN it.
It’s all well-and-good that the county has a copy of your note …
… but it means nothing. The county doesn’t own your mortgage. Right now, you have no idea who owns it or where it’s physically stored. It is legally incumbent (meaning they have to do it by force of law) on the bank to give you UNQUESTIONABLE PROOF of where the note IS … AND every single, legally attested document of proof that they OWN it.
It CANNOT exist in cyber space and be valid. It must PHYSICALLY exist on pulp-paper and the law clearly states that the bank has NO OPTION but to prove ownership.
The only way it can exist outside of its original form on pulp-paper is if they apply to a court WITH DOCUMENTATION proving how it was destroyed, what it said at the time of its destruction and PROVES they owned it at the time of its destruction.
Sorry if I’m a little “firm” or perhaps even appear emotionalized over explaining this … but this is one thing we all have to have CLEAR in our minds, without question.
No matter what the banks “says,” anything outside of my description above isn’t legal.
The note must:
1. Physically exist on paper … the original.
2. Be proven with legal documentation to be owned by the bank.
Period.
None of what you’ve acquired so far has been provided by the bank or proves the bank physically possesses the note or that they own it …
… you have to ask THEM for that … and they’re legally compelled … “zero options” … to provide it.
Bank of America Edges Closer to Tipping Point: Jonathan Weil
“…..the market is saying there’s a $96.8 billion hole in Bank of America’s balance sheet.
For all we know the stock could double, or be a donut.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-04/bank-of-america-edges-closer-to-tipping-point-commentary-by-jonathan-weil.html
“What keeps you awake at night?”
Interesting.
I filed an Emergency PI for someone in GA recently. Now, the court has discretion to grant the PI until the outcome of the suit. That’s the whole purpose of the PI. In this situation, I get an e-mail from the judge’s clerk telling me that she can schedule a hearing for Monday on my motion and that she suggest I forward a copy of my complaint to the defendants (the banks) because “we don’t do ex parte motions.” (Ex parte is just a fancy words that means ‘from one party’ which basically means that one litigant must always include the other litigant in all filings/conversations with the court).
So I reply by stating that the court holds the discretion to grant the PI without a hearing. I also state that I will forward the Order and the Complaint to the banks once the PI has been granted. The clerk responds with a short email stating that “I have given you the rule. Your hearing is November 8, at 9:30.”
Okaaaaaay….. Shortly afterwards, I get an e-mail which is actually to the clerk , I’m just cc’d on the email, from the BANKS’ ATTORNEY, telling the clerk that the foreclosure on the home has been suspended and so there is nothing to enjoin. Hmmmmmm?????? My first thought was, how in the world did the banks’ attorney get my e-mail address? My second thought was, how in the world did the judge’s clerk know who the banks’ attorney was on this case and how did she get HIS email address? My third thought was that the banks and the judges are……no, can’t be.
Tammy, I sent you an email. Did you not get it?
Remus …
Apparently, you smell what Keith, many others and I smell.
It ain’t pretty.
“My third thought was that the banks and the judges are……no, can’t be.”
Yeah Remus,
That’s pretty much what I’ve been suspecting, hence the notion of the “pro se” filing. I’m also concerned that many an attorney acquires fees from banks from numerous cases and as such, may not perform as thoroughly for a “one-timer” client.
Are you suspecting the clerk fowarded your request for the PI to the bank to satisfy the ex parte provision? If so, isn’t that an illegal procedure for the clerk to take that initiative? I know in pro se filing, the clerks will state they cannot offer legal advice, yet isn’t what that clerk did a violation of that? it was clearly intended as an aid to one particular party of the litigation – am I not correct?
So, I get this letter in the mail yesterday from BOA. It says “Thank you for participating in the loan modification process.” What a joke. I have not talked to these people in about a year and I have a contract on my home.
It goes on to tell me that the purpose of this letter was to inform me of fees that apply to a loan that is in default and they go on to list a bunch of companies that may or may not charge fees. They close this letter by saying “We look forward to a successful completion of your loan modification process.” Are they kidding me? They denied me over a year ago.
On the back of this letter is a section called FAQ—
Q. Are there fees associated with getting a loan modification?
A. No, homeowners who qualify for a modification will never be required to pay a modification fee or pay past-due fees.
Really? I have heard a lot of you telling me that they have added late fees to the back-end of your mortgage.
… AND adding outrageous amounts of so-called “delinquent interest” …
I’d check that, too.
Beverly … again, sorry if my two posts above looked anything like “ranting” over producing the note. I didn’t mean to appear emotional or even hard-headed.
Heh, Look – It’s Lootie The Bankster!
“Yet another example of the banks robbing you.”
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=2249593
Beverly–
I having been fiddling around with BoA (and formerly Wilshire) for two years. I was never asked to make a payment while the
loan modification was being processed and processed and
processed and processed and processed . . . you get the picture.
Wilshire offered up a modification in Feb 2009 about one
month before the new HAMP guidelines were coming out and I
asked Wilshire to let me continue to negotiate because the
new guidelines had elements within that better favored me
in terms of numbers. They wanted about $1800 to accompany
their ‘stipulated agreement’ (trial program). But with their
giving me the OK to continue negotiating under the new HAMP
I did not need to make any payment. Getting to the point–
BoA ,who got my file when Wilshire sold out, calculates that I
owe $77,000. They cannot explain the numbers. By my calcu-
lations I owe about $60,000–thus, of course, I am looking for
a principal reduction. But it just goes to show that these robbers
fill will out a blank check to the homeowners detriment.
Oh BAC….. Is $375 BILLION “Material”?
“The Corporation and affiliates, legacy Countrywide entities and affiliates, and legacy Merrill Lynch entities and affiliates have been named as defendants in a number of cases relating to various roles they played in MBS offerings. These cases are generally purported class action suits or actions by individual purchasers of securities. Although the allegations vary by lawsuit, these cases generally allege that the offering documents for more than $375 billion of securities issued by hundreds of securitization trusts contained material misrepresentations and omissions, including statements regarding the underwriting standards pursuant to which the underlying mortgage loans were issued, the ratings given to the tranches by rating agencies, and the appraisal standards that were used in violation of Section 11 and 12 of the Securities Act of 1933 and/or state securities laws. The cases generally allege unspecified compensatory damages and in some instances, seek rescission. The Corporation has previously disclosed some of these matters under other headings, in its 2009 Annual Report on Form 10-K and Quarterly Reports on Form 10-Q for the quarters ended March 31, 2010 and June 30, 2010, including Countrywide Mortgage-Backed Securities Litigation; IndyMac Litigation; Merrill Lynch Subprime-related Matters; and Federal Home Loan Bank of Seattle Litigation.”
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?blog=Market-Ticker&page=1&cat=Foreclosuregate
I absolutely LOVE stuff like this ….
http://stopforeclosurefraud.com/2010/11/05/utah-class-action-coleman-v-bofa-recontrust-mers-wells-fargo-hsbc-us-bank-keybank-bny-mellon/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ForeclosureFraudByDinsfla+%28FORECLOSURE+FRAUD+%7C+by+DinSFLA%29
It’s going to make a great resource, along with a dozen or more others, for a pro se litigation.
Now, many of you may not have the motivation to read through the legal mumbo-jumbo, learn it, and apply it to your own suit. Not having the time or having been emotionally wrung out by this situation is completely understandable …
… but I’m loving what I’m reading in these suits, once I get past the mumbo-jumbo and understand the meat of it.
Note in this one … should you glance through it … how many citations there are to Utah Statutory Law. That’s what it takes. That’s what courts want to see … a full understanding and references to their specific mumbo-jumbo … their language.
All-in-all it’s just “double speak,” and like learning any other language (like Pig Latin) takes a bit of time and patience.
If I found myself in an open air market in Rome or Istanbul, I’d at least want to have a SENSE of what the two guys behind the table were saying about me before I handed over my money. Going to court is no different.
I love standing next to a couple of Hispanic fellows gabbing away and glancing at me, thinking I’m just another “white guy” that can’t understand … then make a rebuttal comment to them in fluent Spanish.
… not to single out Hispanics in any way, but I know a bit of the language. It’s common among just about any language group.
Frankly, unless they were being really derogatory, they usually appreciate my rebuttal in their language. I’ve made it a point to learn “thank you” in several languages … last count was twelve.
Court will be no different. It’ll be interesting to see the judge’s face (or even the defendant’s attorney) when I’m standing there with no attorney and I reply to his question with a specifically relevant statute … without looking in a book …
… IF I file, of course.
**grin**
Don
I found that lawsuit very interesting. You mention a dozen or so more. Are those already filed? Where is everyone finding all these ariticles? I would like to find out more especially because this one relates to a non-judicial foreclosure. Finally some of the lawyers are coming around.
Lu …
It looks to me as though folks in that suit had to have lost the home … been evicted … since it uses the word “dispossessed.”
But you have to be careful how words are used. Definitions can be very specific. Sometimes you even need to spell out a definition in a filing so the court fully understands.
As far as the “dozen” I mentioned, I don’t have that many yet, and the number will include filings that are not lawsuits, and will be things like “motions” and “requests for injunction” … things like that.
Sometimes in Googling and research and reading through articles, I’ll come across one and save it, sometimes not (probably a bad habit for time-efficiency) … only because it’s late or I’m interested in something else. When it comes down to it, I’ll go out and gather them. They’re around.
One side note …
I read recently that there’s 45 “wet note” States, meaning some States’ laws don’t have provisions. However, I’d imagine RESPA/TILA, being Federal, still applies. It’ll be something else to research and confirm. It’ll also be interesting to see if filing Federally will be an advantage, since those not in NC (where BofA is headquartered) may fall under “interstate commerce,” a basic Federal function under the Constitution. That “could” be affected by whether the BofA/Countrywide corporate charters are registered in your/my State, or even if they have offices there/here. Something else to research and confirm. Going straight to filing Federally has been mentioned in some articles.
We had been attempting to get a loan modification since May of 2008 with no contact from BOA. Any correspondence was initiated by us making the call to check on the status. I contacted HUD-Consumer Credit Counseling who was asked to fax information that we supplied again. CCC had to fax four time to four different numbers…it would always get lost or was never received according to BOA. I finally contacted the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency after waiting 2+ years. We were finally contacted the BOA office of the CEO and President. That was fruitless, because after 9 more months the Loan Modification was denied by a montgage investor who held our mortgage. Our credit reports scores were low because of incorect information received from BOA and when after five years it was correctly our credit score went up about 200 point. We went to lending tree. com and requested a refinance, which BOA never offered, and we now have a refinance and mortgage payments that are $600 less than the BOA payments. We need to all be included in the Class Action Law Suit, even if I only get $1.00. Contact the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (occ.gov) if you are having a problem with a national bank.
Sue …
Please see my note to Randy about a quarter of the way down this page.
Your situation mirrors almost all of our experiences. That note to Randy should help orient you to a basic understanding of the situation you find yourself in, as well as what this web site/forum can do for you.
Welcome to the Front Lines. Draw your weapons from the quartermaster.
Something to consider …
It’s not that difficult to figure out, with really simple math, why this entire system is geared to not only “steal” your homes, but literally enslave you economically.
As outrageous as that statement might sound, simple math backs me up.
This is something we all need to “wrap-our-heads-around,” and once we do, if we can do it, turn on the offensive with every ounce of strength we have to bring it down, extinguish it and bury it for all time … with self-education, tenacity and lawsuits, as well as forcing people who should be accountable to BE accountable (does “Election Day” ring a bell?).
One name many people dare not mention is … and I’ll freely, happily state the name … “Goldman Sachs.”
For a basic understanding of why this “company” is important to comprehend, see this article …
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/12697/64796
I know it’s a bunch of financial clap-trap that many of us don’t really get AND it’s written by Rolling Stone people, but it’s CRITICAL we understand … at least a little … the larger picture of what’s going on here.
Here’s where simple math proves (beyond any shadow of a doubt, in my mind) that we are merely pawns to be sucked dry of every drop of our life-blood …
In the [first] bailout, Goldman Sachs received $12.9 Billion. Let me spell that out …
$12,900,000,000
Remember, this company was only ONE of the recipients.
There are about 73 million single family homes in the United States …
73,000,000
If you were to divide that money up between these homes … by simple math … rather than giving it to ONE company … each household would have received $176, 712.
Could you use One Hundred Seventy Six Thousand Seven Hundred and Twelve Dollars? Would that help you with your debts and financial obligations? … or to feed your family?
People tend to ignore the phrase “corporate welfare,” generally not understanding what it means. THIS is what it means.
Check my math.
Note how BofA is mentioned in the article, directly connecting it to all this … well … let’s call a spade a spade … immoral criminality.
Icing on the cake …
Just before protective Big Brother BofA bought it, precisely as it was crashing into the side of a mountain, the CEO if Merrill Lynch spent hundreds of thousands redecorating his office …
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-01-22/john-thains-87000-rug/
Some would argue that all this is just private companies spending their private money the way they please, which is their right.
Really?
I know we all just want our modifications and to get on with our lives … but will it EVER be that simple?
Even if you get your mod and get on with your life, isn’t it INDISPUTABLE that they’ll be back for more?
When you sue … connect ALL the dots.
Something to add …
According to my information, Goldman Sachs (and others, including BofA) paid back the TARP funds.
The argument could be made that giving it to homeowners instead would be the same thing as throwing it away (not that I believe ANY money should be “given” to ANYone).
But if you were made financially “solvent,” meaning you wouldn’t worry and you’d even become productive and perhaps even innovative and entrepreneurial … starting businesses, or simply HAPPY to go to work … wouldn’t THAT be a MUCH better stimulus … Americans doing well by the millions … than feeding money to the “cream” who only skim and bilk millions for self-glorification?
Isn’t THAT what the Constitution, Bill of Rights and Declaration of Independence intends, rather than benefitting a just a few?
Stick to basics. Financial and corporate slavery completely undermines ANYTHING written in those three documents.
If you think I’m full of crap and just angry or vindictive, talking in circles, look at the fact that you’re just about to lose the home you’ve put your blood, sweat, tears and emotional stability into earning.
I had a second mortgage for $250,000. I knew I would use just enough to cover kitchen and bathroom renovations. Once I got started and charged my appliances, tile, fixtures, etc. I received a letter canceling my loan and expected to pay the repay only what I had on the loan ($28,000) . They had canceled the loan a month before I knew it was canceled. I had to borrow money on my BOA charge card at a considerable amount over the 2.5% I had from the loan. I had to pay Home Depot carefully to avoid interest over 20%.
This is the first time in my life my cards are maxed out and I have to pay the finance charge and sometimes slightly more. on the principle. I have always payed the balance every month keeping finance charges at $0.
I am living paycheck to paycheck, with major Workman comp injuries that the V.A. and DOL are not happy about paying. . I have to pay for services I used to do myself. My punishment for being on Light Duty last year was no raise despite of the money saving idea I came up with; what should have been an “Outstanding” proficiency I “did” too much for my Nurse Manager to write in so I missed a bonus by 1 point. I am on my 8th job within one year.
I have lots of nasty secrets the Tampa V.A. covers up. Although I pay Union dues, I get no real representation..I am afraid of the so-called “WhistleBlower Protection”. I know and have proof of numerous scandals that would outrage everyone.
I live in Minnesota, how can I be added in this class action lawsuit? Please add me and is there any lawyer in Minnesota helping consumers?
Don-
here’s another article on the “manufactured” crisis.
they did this in 1917-this was why the glass steagall act was created.
robert rubin, larry summers, and phil gramm killed it during clintons’ presidency. B A N K S T E R S
this article is also on Youtube
trueslant.com/matttaibbi/2009/07/14/the-great-american-bubble-machine/
Thanks Wolfgang …
The link was a little screwy for me, but I found the written article here …
http://www.correntewire.com/great_american_bubble_machine_0
And the YouTube here (5 parts) …
youtube.com/watch?v=nXfTleqKr-U
I’ve also found and started reading an online book “Jimmy Stewart is Dead,” meaning there’s no longer any “George Baileys” in the world and they’ve all become “Potters.”
http://issuu.com/irothko/docs/kotlikoff.jimmystewart
It proposes that we ELIMINATE any chance that banks or financial institutions can GAMBLE … which is a major reason we got into this mess (not including “fiat” money or “fractional banking”).
Boiling it down, we got here (our specific foreclosure problems) because banks found out they can make MORE profit by FORECLOSING than letting a mortgage run its natural course. … nevermind that it’s putting hundreds of thousands of families literally into the street, causing untold, irreparable emotional and psychological damage, and literally causing some to commit suicide … and nevermind that much of it is illegal, and even more importantly, immoral … AND nevermind that it’s corrupting both the political and legal systems … both being quiet supporters of the financial rape (and I contend also “financial murder”) … the legal system literally profiting through fees in court proceedings … and some political figures literally being former employees of the banks and financial institutions … their best buddies.
Remember, these people had to get a special waiver from New York to be allowed to literally GAMBLE with the “derivatives” created from mortgages.
Peeling back this particular onion, it’s time to stop crying and toss the damned thing into the trash … THE WHOLE THING. We’re slowly “moralizing” and even “legalizing” criminality. The people in this business don’t see that they’re doing anything wrong, and if they do, they don’t care because they’re lining their pockets … buying mansions, Ferraris and half million dollar speed boats.
I’m all for “profit” and earning a living, but when we legalize and moralize and rationalize financial rape and murder, we deserve to crash and burn … big time.
Marites …
I wish it were that simple. Unfortunately, there’s no lawsuit to simply be added to. As far as this web site and forum, there’s no “this” lawsuit.
This is a discussion forum/blog for people to come together to discuss things. There aren’t lawyers just sitting around ready to sign you up.
That’s the sad truth and reality.
There’s no sign-up sheet, and there are no heros. We have to be our own heros.
Unfortunately, that’s how this works.
Please see my note to Randy farther up on this page (about a quarter of the way down from the top), then please read the list below. It’s 17 points that might help you get started …
… yes, I know it’s a lot. It’s a lot for all of us. These items come from the discussions of folks on this forum over the last several months who are just like you and me struggling for their homes.
The banks, the legal system and the situation don’t give us much choice but to do these things.
As far as whether there’s lawyers in Minnesota, since I came on in August, I haven’t seen many … if anyone … who mentioned Minnesota. You’d have to read back in posts to see if anyone in Minnesota wrote in.
Right now, there’s no national lawsuit I’m aware of. Since laws governing contracts like mortgages are written State-by-State, a suit needs to be filed in your State … and by people like you, but there ARE Federal agencies and a set of laws, called the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) that regulates banks’ behavior and ethics. There are ways to hold the banks accountable.
Very few lawyers participate on this forum. Just a [very] few brave souls, risking a hand-slap from their bar associations. Their profession frowns on “soliciting,” or giving out much of any legal information publicly.
God forbid we should personally know how the legal system works.
Anyway, if you read the note to Randy above and the list below, it should help give you the idea of what’s going on and what you might do about it.
Give a shout with questions. There’s lots of folks just like you here, with a “fighting spirit” and some savvy experience.
Time to repost the “getting started” list, now with 17 points and slightly edited and cleaned up.
This is for you, Marites, and any other newcomers …
The list below was accumulated from the experiences of a variety of people going through the same pain and similar circumstances as the stories being told here including myself. Unfortunately, these stories are emerging in the hundreds, perhaps thousands, coast-to-coast. We all have to learn what’s happening and how to deal with it, a sometimes painful, but revealing process.
You DO have rights. For the most part, this is NOT your fault. Hopefully, you’ll find this list informative and it will help you turn the tables.
If you want to keep your home, you have to fight for it … but ALSO, you’ll have to learn how this game is played. Unfortunately, this IS a game to them. It’s how they can manipulate things to get as much money as possible. After all, that’s what their stockholders DEMAND … profit, profit, profit. That means getting money (your home equity) from YOU.
Please try and read ALL of this, and research for additional information. Google is your friend. So is Wikipedia. Whenever you get legal terms you don’t understand, look them up so you know what they mean.
1) If you haven’t made a journal/diary of your mortgage modification experience start NOW. Record every instance every time it happens in detail. This is critical for a court case, but can also be helpful for Attorneys General and Agency complaints and for your politicians, should they get involved.
2) Sit down and write out as complete a timeline as you can from the beginning of your experience with as much detail as you can recall. Take time to do a thorough job. Equally valuable as “1)”.
3) Call your State and Federal representatives, Congressman/woman, State Assemblyman/woman and inform them of your situation. Calling is preferred over emailing. It puts a human element into the contact. Ask for help. Don’t hesitate. It’s their job to oversee your community and the goings-on in it. It’s why you elected them. INSIST that they help you if they try to wiggle out of it. Mine were VERY cooperative and helpful.
4) Get any attorney you can find to advise you from church, synagog, friends, family, neighbors. Retain one if you can afford it or call legal aid if you can’t. These are “contractual negotiations” that involve Statutory Law and a lawyer will navigate that best. Tempt them with the possibility of getting a piece of a class action suit.
5) Call the Hope Hotline 877-300-5454 or Money Management International direct 888-881-7558. Use MMI (or a similar NON-profit) literally EVERY TIME you call the bank. A representative will be with you through your calls and the nightmares on hold. They will also keep a record (although it can’t be released without a subpoena from a court). But if it goes to court, you can get it that way. It’s also better to have the BOA people hear you’re not alone on the phone.
6) Call and call and call and call until you get results and cooperation. If you’re using MMI, they’ll ask for supervisors. If you’re not, YOU ask for them. I know from a full year of this garbage how much it cuts into your personal (or even work) time and how traumatic it is, but big corporations BANK on you getting frustrated and giving up. DON’T GIVE UP. Hold their feet to the fire.
7) Keep up your payments as close to on time as you can. This is ALL about the MONEY. It’s a contract and your end is feeding this behemoth monster your hard earned cash. You agreed to it when you signed the mortgage. Courts (and negotiators) will want to see your willingness to pay, as will your politicians and regulatory agencies. It’s your “good will” that you’re willing to work it out.
8 ) Find as many people as you can in your State that are going through this AND keep in contact with forums like this or others. The ONLY power any of us have over this monster is NUMBERS. It is literally “United We Stand, Divided We Fall.” One-by-one they can take us down, but as both national and State groups, they’ll have a hard time of it.
9) Once you’ve contacted your politicians and they’ve started to help you, tell all your friends, family, co-workers and anyone else who knows you to write to them and THANK them for helping you get through this difficult time. DO NOT have them criticize, complaint or tell stories. Just a short thank you will make it clear to your politicians that people are watching their performance. No need to get into detail. They’ll KNOW they’re being watched just through a simple thank you.
10) File a complaint with your State Attorney General and the OCC (http://www.occ.treas.gov/customer.htm). Research your State and complain to any applicable agency. Be sure not to “rant” and provide information in the form and with the content they request.
11) Contact your telephone company and request call records to and from BofA, or get all your calls and highlight them. Add that to your package of evidence.
12) Compose a letter asking news agencies to look into this problem. Describe your situation BRIEFLY, then forward it to every news program and news agency you can think of. There are lists of contacts throughout this blog. Key Point: News people are a bit “legalistic” in covering stories and require documentation and facts. Although they respond to emotional pleas, they will likely ignore incoherent rants, finger-pointing and unproven accusations. Be factual in your letters. The emotions will come across even if you try not to.
13) Learn about, compose and send a RESPA/TILA (Truth in Lending Act) qualified letter, or “Written Qualified Request” (QWR) to the bank and other regulatory agencies, and include anyone (politicians) who might be monitoring your case (see below). The Federal government REQUIRES banks to provide you with DETAILED information on your mortgage.
RESPA is explained on these two government sites –
hud.gov/offices/hsg/rmra/res/reslettr.cfm ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/homes/rea10.shtm
Samples of letters can be seen (copied) here – http://www.nololawlibrary.com/foreclosure/7-2d.shtml http://www.foreclosureindustry.com/2009/08/qualified-written-requests-respa-and-mortgage-servicing/ http://www.scribd.com/doc/11903044/Respa-Letter
Insert your personal information, rewrite the opening paragraph(s) to describe your personal concerns, and customize the “demands” to your own case, preferably with the help of a lawyer.
DO NOT send via email, and use the Postal Service, certified mail, return receipt requested. Copy all related people/parties the same way.
See below for a suggested list of Carbon Copy (CC) recipients to a REASPA/TILA letters.
14) Also … and this is tricky … this is ALL about contract law, which is called “Statutory Law.” It literally has NOTHING to do with Right and Wrong, but what contract law expressly states. This is NOT “Common Law” that talks about the rights of a human being. This is about your “fictitious corporate self” that’s a party to the contract … NOT YOU as a human being. Statutory Law only sees the “contractee,” not the human being. Statutory Law couldn’t care less whether you live in that house or not … just whether the contract is fulfilled.
READ your mortgage and READ your restructuring agreement. Everything that’s happening to you is based on THOSE, not Right or Wrong … or have someone who understands legal language read them and explain what they mean.
Contract violations are what Class Action Law Suits are based on … contractual violations, and that’s all a court will listen to.
Remember, this is a nation (now, anyway) of laws, courts and parties to contracts … NOT common decency or even Common Sense. Work to save your home. Complaining gets you no where. Working hard and learning “the game” they play is the only thing that works.
15) One other thing has emerged … try to get over any embarrassment. For most people, this is not your fault. You have no control over the financial environment and you are merely exercising your rights. In fact, you should be BOLD about exercising them. Don’t let anyone convince you that “you were just asking for it.”
16) Consider stretching your budget to file an INDIVIDUAL lawsuit, rather than being lumped in with a class action. Jamming up a bank’s legal department with multiple suits is far more effective than allowing them to combat one class action. A class action puts you in a barrel with all the other fish.
It’s also been suggested that you can file yourself, without an attorney. It’s called “pro se.” When you sue personally, you can name names. You’re not held to the same standards as a lawyer. You can sue everybody, including the “negotiator” or “customer advocate” or even the court itself if they contradict the law, by filing criminal charges against even the judge. You can name anyone on any paper that relates to your mortgage.
But if you can’t file individually, keep in touch with people in your State. You can’t simply “put-your-name-on-a-list”. It’s not that easy. You have to work to FORM a class action suit. For the moment, no Federal class action exists and they MUST be State-by-State. Band together and hunt hard for an attorney who will take it on.
17) There’s also been the suggestion that you file bankruptcy. Bankruptcy is a complicated and often expensive process, and not everyone qualifies … as described here …
http://www.uscourts.gov/FederalCourts/Bankruptcy/BankruptcyBasics/Chapter13.aspx
It can be a difficult decision, time consuming and possibly expensive, seriously affecting your credit for years, but a solution none-the-less.
Suggested recipients to RESPA/TILA (Truth in Lending Act) Written Qualified Request letters –
Federal Trade Commission
600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC. 20580
Office of RESPA and Interstate Land Sales
Room 9146, Department of Housing and Urban Development
451 7th Street SW,
Washington, DC 20410
Office of Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO )
RESPA REQUEST
1700 G Street, NW., Fourth Floor
Washington, DC 20552
Comptroller of the Currency (OCC)
Administrator of National Banks
250 E St SW
Washington, DC 20219
Larry L. Hattix, Ombudsman, Comptroller of the Currency (OCC)
Office of the Ombudsman
250 E. Street, SW, MS 9-3
Washington, DC 20219
Fannie Mae (or Freddie Mac if they “own” your loan)
Mortgage Fraud Program
3900 Wisconsin Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20016
U.S. Department of Justice
Glenn A. Fine, Inspector General
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20530-0001
Both Federal Senators (Google)
Federal Congressperson of your District (Google)
Both State Senators, or the State Senator responsible for your district (Google)
Your State Assemblyperson (Google)
Your Attorney, even if they aren’t retained yet
Your State Attorney General (Google)
Your District Attorney’s office
Check for specialized lawyers under the DA (Google)
The Sheriff’s Office of your County or Parish (Google and name the Sheriff)
Your County Commissioners
Any media people aware of your case
I have to go to a web site in ENGLAND and only see a LOCAL Vail, Colorado article at the top of my Google list on the behavior of this BANKER??
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1327323/Morgan-Stanley-financial-adviser-escapes-felony-charges-hit-run-jeopardise-job.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
http://www.vaildaily.com/article/20101104/NEWS/101109939
And and I can’t even BEGIN to tell you how appalled I am at the prosecutor’s decision.
It should be national headlines.
If anyone would like to comment to the district attorney for Eagle, Colorado there’s phone numbers and email addresses here … http://www.da5.us/
If you like, remind them of this quote on that page, “It is the mission of this office to passionately advocate for victims of crime …”
… and he pulled into a Pizza Hut to call a Mercedes dealer about the damage to his CAR???
What kind of people are we dealing with? Nevermind … I already know the answer.
I’ve been trying to get my Home modification since November of 2009, an entire year today. I reported them to the Federal Reserve Bank, nothing happened. I am a single mom on disability, at my rope’s end in Louisiana. I’d like to start a class action suit down here, I just can’t believe I’ve kept it up with them for this long. Sent in my paperwork I don’t know how many times. I clearly qualify for the program and still haven’t even been put in a “trial” program (which I hear is also becoming a nightmare). If anyone could point me to a Louisiana lawyer, or anyone else can help, I’d really appreciate it.
Maria …
I didn’t mean to neglect you by not mentioning you by name. Hope you have a glance through the things I’ve suggested to other newcomers.
“Nightmare” is about the size of it for many, if not most of us. But there’s things you can do … and that’s the trick … YOU have to do them. That’s called “being your own hero.”
Actually … typing that … something came to mind.
Isn’t that what this country is really all about? Isn’t it the fact that we’re all supposed to be our own heros? Isn’t that what it means to “pursue Life, Liberty and Happiness”? How can anyone else do that for us? How would anyone else know what made us happy? Isn’t it up to each of us to do that individually? Should we depend on someone else, like they used to depend on a “king” and his power to make things happen and “protect” us and “provide” for us?
I think sometimes we forget the fact that politicians work for US, as well as the political and judicial system being in place for OUR benefit. We aren’t “under” them like the subjects of a king. They are our EMPLOYEES, and should be looking out for our interests, under OUR instruction, through votes and the clear vocal opinion of their “constituency” … which means US, individually.
I guess all I’m saying is that I shouldn’t have to go begging for something that’s already my Right … like fair treatment under the law … even to say (as a nation) when laws are wrong.
Neither should I have to pound my fist to insist on fair treatment … but I guess that’s where we find ourselves.
So … be your own hero and set things right.
Just a quick note.
I see I’ve had my time with the “talking stick.” Maybe a little overtime. I’ll shaddap a while.
do u know of a lawyer in mi , to file a class action law suit
Does anyone know who I can contact in NYS for a class action suit? I to have all the same happening to me. Any and all info you can provide will be appreciated! Thank you
I have gone through hell because of B of A. After they agreed to modify the loan and all papers were signed they didnt do anything to modify my loan at all. As a matter of fact when i talked to them on the phone they just told me to keep paying the new modified payment and it will all go through the system soon as fixed. So after 6 months they all of a sudden upped my payment by 300 dollars out of nowhere. They said it was to compensate fore the amount i was paying short for the last 6 months. They deny modifying my loan and its as though it never happenned.MY QUESTION: Is there a joint lawsuit in Pennsylvania going on against B of A? If so I would really like to be a part of it.
Interesting article that came out today: yahoo.com/s/ap/20101107/ap_on_bi_ge/us_loan_mod_foreclosures. Bank of America and many others are getting slammed with lawsuits and I am sooooooo glad. I hope every single person screwed over by this fraudulent company gets their homes paid off at the very least. For all the newcomers, I highly suggest following Don’s List that is posted several times on this blog. If any of you try to initiate a lawsuit or join a class action one, it is imperative that most if not all of the things on this list be done. I guess many of you have a lot of work to do but it is worth it. Luckily, through my own personal investigations I have done everything on this list months ago without totally knowing what was going to happen. I wish I would have seen this list sooner, it would have saved me many hours of investigating. Regardless, I now have all my bases covered and have tried to use all resources to try to solve this issue but Bank of America will not budge or even admit fault. I have no other choice than to sue them and it would be to late for them to solve the issue anyway. More than a year of unnessary malicious persecution and torture from Bank of America.
Denise, Chuck, Chris and Alyson …
First Alyson — I don’t know if you noticed, but you posted with entries way back in April. No one is really reading way back there. We’re all up here …
https://classactionlawsuitsinthenews.com/class-action-lawsuits/bank-of-america-mortgage-modification-class-action-lawsuit-filed/
I’d like to suggest all of you newcomers read my note to Randy here on this last, most recent page. It’s about a quarter of the way down from the top of this column.
Then, you might look over the 17 point list a few posts up from this one.
My note to Mike and Jerri above also relates to you new folks. I said …
Seems, over time, the task of dropping the “reality pill” on folks first coming across this web site has fallen to me … which I don’t mind in the least … really. Happy to oblige.
But you might like to read my note to Randy above. He’s just arrived himself, and I thought I’d attempt to condense the group’s conversation into a single post for the benefit of anyone new.
The “impression” of what this site might be isn’t necessarily what it turns out to be … but … with all the experience, research and input of so many folks, it may actually turn out a better resource than you thought.
Your story is so much like most of us here … “We hear you.” It’ll just be sort-of necessary to orient yourself to what you’ve gotten into in order to fix it.
Best of luck and Fight the Good Fight.
To the rest of the board … I said I’d shut up a while, but that doesn’t mean I’d stop greeting … **smile**
Anyone else that wants to steer folks in the right direction, or modify or add to any of the suggestions is welcome to, naturally.
p.s. to Chuck … once you’ve looked over the note to Randy and the 17 point list, please email me at donsweet@verizon.net
p.s. to all Readers … the next time I repost (or anyone else reposts for that matter, it’s not “my” list) the 17 point list, it will contain an 18th point. The 18th point will use item #2, which is the timeline. It’s been suggested that we all have these timelines notarized, scanned, and placed in a “repository” or online data base so anyone suing can access the statements when filing a suit. You need physical “attested” evidence (affidavits) of a widespread pattern of behavior by the banks. You can’t just “claim” it in court. You have to PROVE it with affidavits. A data base has been created and the details are being worked out. More news and details later as they develop.
Hi Don. Sorry if your comment might have implied to me since I did refer to it as “your” list but I do know it is not. It does contain very important info that is a great guideline for everyone to go by. The newcomers on this forum would need to know that this list was kindly posted by you several times so that it can be Ieasy to find since there are so many comments to sift through. I am really interested about having the timeline “notarized” as you stated and would love to get more info about that. Also, the affidavits of the bank’s behavior is also interesting. Thanks again for all of the useful information you have provided on this forum. 🙂
p.s. to anyone who forgot or missed the fact that I have a 15 page RESPA/TILA (Truth in Lending Act) letter ready to be modified and filled in to demand detailed information from the bank about your mortgage (your legislated, legal Right). Rather than the simple ones listed in the 17 point list, I’d strongly suggest you consider this long version, which leaves no stone unturned. For a copy, please email me at donsweet@verizon.net. Please research and understand the RESPA/TILA letter and how it can force the bank to adhere to the law.
Don…please…don’t shut up…your the rock in this forum!! I’m sure I’m not alone when I say your comments are helpful and interesting!
Thanks Lu …
Thank you Don ! I have just finished personalization of my RESPA letter, that you provided for me. Tomorrow I meet with an attorney to “Chart My Course”. I have 16 days until BofA auctions off my home. That won’t be happening!!
I will keep you all posted on what we are doing, and how we are doing it. I’m not waiting for a class action suit because getting a pittance, after my home is gone doesn’t make sense to me.
Lisa from Hawaii, has set up a “mailbox” that we can all deposit out notarized statement of facts into, and also retrieve from others. There needs to be some legal jargon and I have a friend working on that presently. I will post it as soon as I receive it from him.
Let the building of the TROJAN HORSE begin!
Way to go Lauren! I wish you the best!! Let me know about the mailbox. More than happy to do whatever is needed to bring these @##holes down!
Not NEW news….But thought you might get a laugh!
Today I received, via USPS, a letter from B of A (guess FED EX is getting tooooo costly?) requesting a 10th, YES TENTH, set of documents for my modification. And by the way, if I don’t get the docs to them by the 14th I loose my eligibility!
Well I’m having a ROBUST laugh because I’ve strapped on my guns and am preparing the TROJAN HORSE for a ride!
What are you planning? Im in the same boat, just curious. I need help and not exactly sure what to do next.
Kim were all in this SAME boat. Exactly where are you in the B ofA process?
I noticed that in RED LETTERS, Bank of America had a google ad on this page that stated:
Bank of America supporting the non profits that address critical community needs………… Also that add changes its message periodically as well.
So here we are CARE AGAIN FARM SANCTUARY, a non profit for the care of unwanted Farm Animals, Dog and Cats, mostly from properties that they have already foreclosed on! AND now they are foreclosing on us!!
Gotta love B of A’s propaganda!!!!!
I would love to join in on the class action lawsuit! They have been allowed to do this crap with their wonderful modification’s and they have ended up screwing over millions of people. Not only is this not right it should not be legal! When I started this I was one month behind, not they state that I am 6 months behind because of the 11 month trial payment night mare. My house is in foreclosure and although no one can explain anything they want me to pay them $8800.00! Mind you my payments were only $200.00 less than my regular payments. Crazy as heck and doesn’t make any sense!
I too have been making payments for 11 months. I just got my letter last week, they want me to pay them $15895.13 by December 1st or they are going to take my house…I actually got 3 modifications…they said due to late docs or they messed up on the docs…excuses! If I stole $15000 from someone they would prosecute me…
Luis …
Please see my note to Randy on the previous page. It’s a little less than a quarter of the way down that page from the top. Click on the light blue “Previous Comments” below, or at the top of this column.
You’ll need to do a little reading to learn what this forum/site is … and isn’t.
I have been given the same run around as everyone else and I am a retiree of Bank of America. I started my mod last December and it has been a nightmare. I faxed my information at least six times so I finally filed a formal complaint with the comptroller of currency and like magic all my payments that I made that had been sitting in this side account not being applied to my loan got applied and I got assigned to the office of the president who after a couple of calls and telling me that we were almost to the end of this nightmare and that was 2 months ago and I have called and left at least 12 messages and don’t get a call back and when I call the regular department no one can talk to me or tell me what is going on. I wrote a letter to Pres Obama and guess what? I didn’t get an answer. I really don’t know what to do anymore. I tried to get my named added to the class action law suits but none of those attorney responded to my emails. Has anyone had any success?
Diana …
I’m trying really hard not to miss any newcomers and address them personally. One CRITICAL emotional factor in this is that feeling of being alone with no one listening.
I can tell you from months of exposure to this forum that plenty of people are listening … we hear you.
We may not always have the time to call you by name, but all those who post here care about the others … of that I’m sure. We’re all in this together. That’s why we post and share information … so others can learn from us and we can learn from others.
I hope you noticed my note to Shannon below. It applies to you as much as any other newcomer.
Your statement “I really don’t know what to do anymore” really got to me since I felt that way at one time, too. Many of us have. But you can fight this “monster” and we’re all here to help each other along the way.
Here’s what I said to Shannon …
Please see my note to Randy on the previous page. It’s a little less than a quarter of the way down that page from the top. Click on the light blue “Previous Comments” at either the bottom or top of this column.
Then please look over the 17 point “getting started” list at the bottom of that page. You may find it helpful.
You’ll need to do a little reading to learn what this forum/site is … and isn’t.
I’d suggested Shannon email me since she’s also from PA and I might be able to steer her in some specific directions. But I also like tackling things here in the forum for two reasons … first, it’s good to share what you know for a maximum of exposure for the good of us all … but also, I’m perfectly happy with and welcome criticism and correction. I want to KNOW when I’m wrong, and I’m happy to be corrected. Exposing myself to that possibility makes my situation better, not worse.
So post your questions here, too. There’s lots of folks willing to help.
Read up, learn and become tenacious to Fight the Good Fight.
Here i am again, with yet another update and another call. It is coming down to the wire now for Boa to respond to my atty’s demand letter. He gave Boa a 2 week extension which gives them until November 17’th to respond. The lawsuit is ready to be filed in Superior court the following day.
Earlier I posted a letter from Boa’s atty informing my lawyer, that a cease and desist was put on my account, and that the calls to me WILL STOP!! That was dated Nov 2nd.
…I received a call from Boa on Nov 5th with an update on my status, stating that my modification isn now “IN CLOSING” . So i have to ask why, and tell them, they do not belong contacting me, it has to go through my atty. She says no, I am giving you the update. She tells me it is in closing because it is in the final step to finalize the mod, and to assure me, that it will be in my name, not my deceased husbands. Once again, as I am ready to burst into tears, I ask her to call my lawyer. she says no, but I will keep you updated.
…fast foward to today Nov 10th. yet another phone call from boa. This time it is from the “office of the president”. I just sit quietly and let him talk. He tells me he wanted to know if my negotiator has been in touch with me, and to inform me that he is sending a letter to my congressman, to give him an update on my loan!!!!!! He then asks, are you still there? I said yes, what is this about. He said do you still have legal representation, and I said yes, and there is a cease and desist order on my acct. He says I do not see that, and I replied “why am I not surprised”. He then asked for my atty’s number which I gave him months ago, and told me I will be getting new docs to sign in the mail very soon in my name, not my deceased husband, as I cry again. I asked him is it the same modification that I signed and accepted back in August, and he says I don’t know….I never saw the offer. (he is in the “office of the president”) IMAGINE!!!
My atty said he is sending out a letter to the congressman, because the state, and the atty general here in MA are cracking down, they are even trying to get class action status in a few cases, I DON’T WANT THAT….I am on a mission, and I am going to follow it through. I don’t want to be a pebble in a lawsuit, I want to be the BOULDER!
Aloha Everyone……Yes its here in Hawaii too. As I continue on with my trial (3 month) payment which is now well over a year, there is still no finality. I also have complained to my Senator, and try to update him as often as posible. Then dealing with these cluts at BOA, from the office of the President telling me all docs have been received one day then having MHA tell me the next day I have not qualified, because I did not submit a requested doc. To consistantly telling me that although I am on a trial, nothing is guaranteed….this is a real circus and I am getting dizzy from this ride. How do we stop the maddness?!! I just yelled at a MHA rep today as they blame the restrictions are made by the federal government and thats why it takes so long. So now because someone missed a doc that I had submitted which cause them to dismiss my file, then having this dude look again then he finds it….ooops, we have to file another appeal!……If I sound crazy…thats because I am due to this stupid mixed up system…….I want to join in on this class action law suit….I am tired, frustrated, angry……..Maybe we can get our mortgages excused due to the idiots that are messing up. Since BOA got their money already….no big thing for them right?!
Valerie …
Please allow me to make one correction. There is no lawsuit to simply sign up for … and being tired, frustrated and angry is precisely where they want you.
Please see my note to Randy on the previous page. It’s my way of condensing both the situation and the meaning and purpose of this forum (which isn’t mine by the way).
To access the previous page, simply click on the light blue “Previous Comments” at the top or bottom of this column and scroll about a quarter of the way down the page to the post.
I would also suggest you read through the 17 point list at the bottom of that page. They are things folks on this forum have come up with to help the situation along.
I know it’s complicated and overwhelming. That’s the way the banks (and frankly, the legal system) likes it. The fact remains that our only, real hope in defending ourselves is to become knowledgeable warriors to save our homes. There are no heroes hovering over their computer screens waiting anxiously for us to ask for help.
For your own sake, please take the time to read through this forum and the posts of many knowledgable people who have come to understand the “war” we find ourselves in.
Diana,
I am right there with you. I have gone to consumer credit counseling and they are helping me with my Bank of America run around. Don’t get me wrong, we are still NOWHERE…they are giving her the same run around as me, but the government has a team of people investigating these modifications and bank of america is a big one…she has a direct number for this team. I’m getting very scared as I’ve been making my modification payment for 11 months now and just got a letter last week as a notice to accelerate my note into foreclosure. I am actively pursuing an attorney. We live in Missouri…
Here is part of the written response from BOA regarding my
request to view the original note. I did this a couple of weeks
ago when there was a link to a website here that let you fill in your
information and I believe they faxed an official RESPA type
request to the BOA.
“Dear Sir-
Thank you for your request that you or one of your representatives
view the original note.
You cite no legal authority that supports your claim that you are entitled to view the original Note, and we are not aware of the existence of any such authority. Accordingly, BAC Home loans
respectfully declines this request.. If you wish to pursue this matter
further, please provide such legal authority.
In lieu of allowing inspection of the original note, we have
enclosed herewith a true and correct copy of the original Note
dated xyz, Deed of Trust/Mortgage, Seetlement Statement, Uniform Residential Loan Application, and Good Faith Estimate.
Sincerely,
Qualified, Written Request ( QWR) Group”
GSP …
As far as I know you can cite …
Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act, 12 U.S.C. Section 2605(e)
Title 12 § 2605 (e)(1)(B) (e) and Reg. X § 3500.21(f)2 of the United States Code
Truth In Lending Act [TILA] 15 U.S.C. § 1601, et seq
Title 62 of the Revised Statutes, RESPA, TILA, Fair Debt Collection Act, HOEPA and other laws
12 USC 3754
To my limited, amateur knowledge, that would put the statement “You cite no legal authority” into the category of an “obfuscated truth.”
All that means is that you didn’t CITE the law, not that it doesn’t exist.
The Statutory Law I listed above EXISTS (some not directly applying the “produce the note” demand, but relevant none-the-less).
… and it’s ONLY the Federal law, not even mentioning your State’s contract law OR other State and Federal agency rules.
Don’t be snowed.
Had you used my 15 page version of the RESPA/TILA letter, those laws would have been cited. I get the impression you used a shorter version that didn’t.
how do i get this letter?
Jackie …
Feel free to email me at donsweet@verizon.net.
Bill Black And L. Randall Wray Demand Bank Of America Finally Open It Books
“Bank of America Should be Placed in Receivership NOW
We argued that the FDIC should place Bank of America in receivership and the federal banking agencies should impose a moratorium on foreclosures until the mortgage servicers correct their systems, which currently often rely on massive fraud and perjury. There can be no assurance that foreclosures are lawful until the banks actually find the mortgage “wet ink” notes signed by debtors to prove they are the true beneficial owner of the mortgage debts, which is required to seize property. We also called on the banks to identify and compensate homeowners who were fraudulently induced to borrow by the lenders and their agents through a number of fraudulent practices variously marketed by lenders as “no doc”, liar, and NINJA loans (all subspecies of what the industry aptly called “liar’s” loans).”
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/bill-black-and-l-randall-wray-demand-bank-america-finally-open-it-books
Terrific find Keith!
In contradicting myself and not shutting up, I just can’t on this one.
That Huffington Post article uses the word “fraud” no less than FORTY times.
Now, some might call Arianna Huffington a controversial person, and some might even call her a “blow-hard,” but the fact remains that the online publication has become a force to be reckoned with in the last five years … meaning they’ve shown themselves to have credibility … so much so that BofA actually RESPONDED to some of their recent accusations, which is RARE for a corporation of that size and power.
Even with THAT, there’s something not to miss about the use of the word “fraud.”
There’s a common principle in law enforcement.
When law enforcement gets a tip, phone call or ANY indication that a crime has been committed, they MUST investigate, no matter how frivolous (silly) it might appear on the surface. That’s their JOB … a “mandated function” of the legal system.
For MONTHS, the word “fraud” has been associated with the banks … over and over. The finger has been pointed.
It was enlightening and reassuring to hear that all 50 States’ Attorneys General have been “looking into” the accusations.
Even on a personal level, it’s been reassuring that my politicians, the OCC and my own Pennsylvania Attorney General have been looking into the situation, some even ENTHUSIASTIC to do so.
There’s one HUGE caution to be thrown into the conversation, though.
What about this often mentioned “too big to fail” question?
In my personal opinion, and that of many others, including the Huffington writers, THERE IS NO SUCH THING …
… but is that a “practical” reality? Does it mean there won’t be fear (in The System) of the consequences? … that people within The System won’t have the nerve to terminate these corporate entities and their ability to continue to defraud … which literally means lie and steal?
Maybe. Maybe they will hesitate.
I, personally, have a little more faith than that. It’s my personal belief that responsible people … the “authorities” … will simply be more CAUTIOUS (and take the time) to shut down these “lie factories” properly.
I also personally believe that we have NO CHOICE but to shut them down, permanently, and FOR ALL TIME … but that’s a tall order … not “impossible” … but tall.
The key literally lays in OUR LAPS … not the “authorities.”
Even though the authorities are responsible for continuing to protect us from liars and thieves, WE are responsible for holding THEM responsible. It’s nothing against them, as responsible authorities. It’s simply Human Nature.
Apathy … simply not caring … is contagious. When YOU don’t care, THEY don’t care, and The System falls apart.
But equal to that is “knowing.”
If you don’t know something, how can you “care” about it?
“The System” as I’ve mentioned it here is INTERACTIVE.
What I mean by that is the fact that YOU have to remain knowledgeable and ACTIVE in The System.
Without that, this “Constitutional Republic” crashes and burns …
… which it’s doing … as we speak …
… but ONLY if we let it.
Contact your politicians, file complaints with every regulatory agency, call the media, and SUE, while not letting the courts even THINK about “railroading.”
You have a voice, and you HAVE Rights.
Update: My mom’s MHA application is again under review…When asked how long this could take our negotiators manager said roughly 60 days where as we will than be notified as being denied or receive trial period paperwork.
A few interesting things to share. I again complained about the late fees they have on my mom’s account and that they should be waived due to BOA misplacing two payments. The negotiator’s manager agreed and said she would have them waived ($200.75) I asked her if I could get this in writing being that I’ve been told they would be waived for two months now and the manager actually sent us a secure email stating that the late charges were waived. Written proof against them if the renege on their word!
Also before talking to the negotiators manager, I was talking to a Customer Relations Advocate at BOA and I was telling her it was a joke that my mom has been dealing with this MHA process since June 2009. After a few choice words and criticisms, the BOA rep told me it was the investor who is holding everything up…(Fannie) and that I should talk to them.
So I called Fannie and asked them what the hell was going on and what the rep at BOA told me and the Fannie rep told me that unless the borrower is in the trial period, Fannie wouldn’t know anything about it…another lie from BOA…Shocker!
Here is where it kind of gets interesting. I told the Fannie rep about their online servicers HAMP guideline booklet, where it says things like “This agreement does not apply to GSE loans” and the Fannie rep asked which site I got this information from and I said directly from the Fannie/HAMP website, so I told him I would go to the link hmpadmin.com/portal/prog…/servicer.html which was where the online sevicers handbook was and when I went to that site I got the following message: The requested object does not exist on this server. The link you followed is either outdated, inaccurate, or temporarily unavailable.
Is it just a coincidence that this link is no longer available? It was the link that stated to servicers that GSE loans did not qualify for HAMP.
The plot thickens….
Still working on a RESPA letter.
I too having been trying to get approved on the MHA plan since June 2009, I have sent in 4 applications along with all requested documents. Of course one package they say they didnt recieve, one they said they only recieved half of… I did do the trial period. I met and maintained as agreed, I was guaranteed a loan mod upon completion of the trail period.Instead I recieved a letter stating there was no program available for me at this time and then 2 weeks later another letter stating “Please contact our office there is help for you available.” I have most all contact and coorespondence documented, as well as proof of delivery and confirmations.I am at my wits end with B of A and in need of help. Im in Seattle any idea how or if I can jump on the class action law suite filed here in district court?
My Mom applied for MHA in June 2009 also and has yet to be put into the trial period…
Frances …
Please see my notes to Diana above and Shannon below.
I may just repost both references in the previous page in those notes, but I’m trying not to use up forum space.
Question to anyone who has received trial period paperwork:
When signing the paperwork is there a stipulation in the legalese which states upon signing the paperwork, the borrower cannot sue the servicer?
This is important. I have read in the past that if you sign trial period paperwork from your servicer, your right to any legal action against the servicer is waived. If this is true (I’m not sure) it is illegal according to the updated Fannie Servicer guide I just found online it states on the ninth bullet point under HAMP eligibility that: The servicer may not require a borrower to waive legal rights as a condition of the HAMP.
So if anyone can reply to this it would be appreciated. If such statements in the servicers trial period paperwork strips away any legal rights to the borrower upon signing the paperwork I’d say we just might have more ammunition against the banksters in a law suit.
Tony …
My best [amateur] guess by your description is more of a question about whether or not such a “clause” exists. You’d have to read the paperwork you’re referring to, to know. It would have to be specifically spelled out in the agreement. You can’t just assume it’s there.
One thing I DO know …
Even if it’s there, fraud NULLIFIES any contract … which means it can’t be enforced.
If you sign a contract and the other guys is proven to have committed fraud against you in ANY aspect of the contract, it’s null and void … and THEIR fault.
Here’s something else I know …
Judges and juries “weigh” what could be called “offenses” when contracts are in dispute. It’s a requirement of law that both sides “balance” out. The weight of a fraud is FAR more heavy than, say, a few late payment or even missed ones.
Technically, if you violated the contract by failing to pay or paying beyond a late period, it can be held against you … but FRAUD is FAR more “egregious” or offensive and punishable.
“Late” or “missed” payments are usually negotiable, particularly when it comes to a mortgage … PARTICULARLY when governmental agencies use words like “exhausting all loss mitigation options” … which means working out a modification until nothing else can be agreed on (one offer does not constitute “exhausted”).
FRAUD … on the other hand … if it’s proven … NULLIFIES the entire agreement COMPLETELY. So even if your agreement includes an “indemnifying” clause or waiver of suit, fraud kills it dead.
It would be interesting to chat with a knowledgable attorney about the viability of suing (additionally) for “coercion” in requiring a waiver of suit … “Sign this agreement as is or we won’t talk to you.” … In my mind, fearing loss of the roof over your head, that literally defines the meaning of the word “coercion,” which is also an offense.
We all know there’s lots and lots and lots of fraud going on here … and it ain’t us.
ANY PA LAWSUITS FILED YET. I AM READY NEED ATTORNEY
Shannon …
Please see my note to Randy on the previous page. It’s a little less than a quarter of the way down that page from the top. Click on the light blue “Previous Comments” at either the bottom or top of this column.
Then please look over the 17 point “getting started” list at the bottom of that page. You may find it helpful.
You’ll need to do a little reading to learn what this forum/site is … and isn’t.
When you’ve had a look at those posts, feel free to email me at donsweet@verizon.net, or post any questions here. There’s lots of savvy folks willing to help.
Diana, I may now be looking at success! I started my modification last December and thanks to my Congressman, Pat Tiberi, my case got sent to the President/CEO’s office at his request. I have been given the run around like everyone else except I only had to send my info one time. However, they could not find papers that they had instituted for a final modification and had to ask me to send them a copy of my copy!!!! How can a big institution like BOA just disregard such important legal documents? I don’t really expect an answer to that question, LOL. I was told by theCEO/President’s office that my modification was completed back on July 1, 2010! But it wasn’t changed in their computer system and that is why I was still in the trial program. I’m not sure why this was not noted on my info so that when I called in, they knew what was going on and could tell me. I learned this info a month ago, was told it would only take a few days! I guess maybe 30 days is a few days somewhere—kind of like it is 5:00 somewhere. Today I finally received the final papers for me to sign(I already signed the final agreement once and returned it to them) and my payment is apprx $50 more than what they told me in the trial but they also had increased the trial payments apprx $100. The reason for the increase is the escrow account—my taxes really raised and they had not adjusted the payment to collect that additional escrow so my escrow account was in the negative. I have to call them and they will send a notary to witness my signature and then return the papers to them. IF this goes through, as it should, my next battle will be trying to get them to correct my credit report for 6 months they said I was delinquent. The CEO/President’s office did give me the name of a contact person who did(supposedly) knows what was going on with my case however, I have called him weekly, had to leave messages and have yet to have my calls returned. You see how throwing the CEO’s name around does not help you with the regular staff at BOA! I am not naive enough to celebrate yet but I am cautiously optimistic. Maybe part of the reason my modification has finally taken a step forward is because Ohio sued Countrywide and as part of the settlement, they had to modify so many loans. My original loan was with Countrywide and I got turfed to BOA. If anyone out there is from Ohio and had their loan originally with Countrywide, this may be a way to get your modification through. Ohio was not the only state that sued Countrywide—you might want to check with your Attorney General’s office to see if your state was part of that suit and settlement—-it may help you get through this mess.
Joy … be very careful to check your loan modification agreement thoroughly, including checking for back-end payments or added principle, which could be listed as late fees or delinquent interest.
Ok so after a good 1.5 to 2 years of dealing with BofA regarding my loan mod , and after recieving three denial letter with a “You Qualify Letter ” thrown in for good measure , BofA is now giving me a Loan Mod. The Notory person will be at my house this coming Monday at 9 am sharp , so I sit here and ask myself ! Why all the sudden are they doing this and the terms are basicly this 2% the first five years ,followed by a 3% for three years ending with 4% the remainder of the loan, with them dumping the missed payments tot thhe tune of 23k on the back of the loan. Go Figure ? What puzzles me is after sending the required docs no less than 15 times and fileing a complaint with Banking Commision , Better Buisness did I start to get some coopperation , but before they called this past Monday to tell me I was getting a loan Mod , I got a letter from another groupe of BofA saying I qualify for the short sale programe , so I send the required Doc’s which so happend to be the same stuff I sent 15 other times , and the guy tells me that if the Mod goes through then this will cancel out ? The kicker is I was 100% conviced they were going to take the house , but I believe that after and only after I sent the RESPA letter out to them and the Banking Commision am I getting somewere , this still remaines to be seen and I won’t believe it till they are sitting here with all the paperwork. I will let you all know what happens.Holding my breath.
Till then hang on. Woody
Woody~ Can you please tell me more about the RESPA letter? I just finished a 3 page letter regarding the horrible experience I have had to date. I am mailing it out to the Banking Commission amongst others this week.I am desperate for any and all input. TY Frances
Frances …
Not to upstage Woody …
The RESPA/TILA (Truth in Lending Act) letter is briefly explained in the 17 point “getting started” list at the bottom of the previous page of posts. It also includes two links to government sites that describe it, and there are links to sample letters, from simple to long and detailed. (You might have to monkey with the links to get them to work. I see they’re “blended” and don’t go straight to the sites. I’ll fix that next time I post.)
Essentially, the Real Estate Procedures Act (RESPA) and the Truth in Lending Act (TILA) requires … by law … that mortgage companies provide you with whatever information you request about your loan … however many times you request it. You can send in a second, or third, or fourth if they haven’t answered your questions thoroughly enough. They’re know as a “Qualified Written Request (QWR).
Please note the phrase “whatever information you request.”
If you don’t request it, they don’t have to provide it. You can’t make ANY “assumptions” that they’ll give you everything you need … because they won’t.
Apparently, there’s another problem arising. If you don’t specifically state the statutes requiring them to provide the information you requested, they deny the Right exists AT ALL … however … the latest twist on their wording is that you haven’t cited your right in law, implying it doesn’t exist. The long version I have available has the citations … but they are only the Federal Laws and not your State’s Laws. You can research and cite them, too.
I DO NOT recommend the shorter version letters. They have few specifics … which are essential to your case … and basically assume you’ll get what you need. Do NOT rely on their good graces. If you haven’t figured it out yet, they have no good graces.
I’d strongly suggest you consider going to the trouble of preparing the 15 (or 17) page version. The length will vary depending on your word processor and how much personal modification you make.
For mine, I was particularly SCATHING, being particularly intolerant of every abuse I’d suffered, as well as being VERY CLEAR that they had no right to refuse to answer or abide by the law.
It’s also been suggested that should your request be “lengthy” as with the 15 page letter, they can charge you for the paperwork. I made it absolutely CLEAR and in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that the information would have never been requested or needed if it were not for the bank’s delays, and by that they had no right whatsoever to hold me accountable for requesting information by charging me for it … charges for paperwork would be wholly unwarranted.
This is not a time to be polite. This is not a “nice” letter. It’s a legally founded DEMAND, based on horrible treatment where you’ve reached the end of your rope and INSIST on every single detail relating to your loan … which they CANNOT refuse by law.
The long letter covers every possible detail INCLUDING production of the “blue ink” note AND the production of any document linking their right of ownership or right to foreclose, which is equally important.
Let me emphasize this without the use of caps … they cannot refuse to provide this information without violating the law.
However, if you use a short, undetailed letter, you will either get a denial or you’ll get a short, undetailed answer, which is NOT what you need.
You need every scrap of paper, every fact and figure and every justification for every penny you’ve ever given them, on top of full justification by legally sworn documentation that they have any right to be dealing with you in the first place.
THAT’S a RESPA letter.
Anyone who’s been reading me for the last few months knows I call this a “war.” I simply can’t call it anything else. A RESPA letter is one of the biggest guns you have to fire prior to suit. In fact, it will help filing a suit. Even if they fail to keep to the legally mandated schedule of acknowledgment (20 days) and response (60 days), it will help a suit. Just telling you in a letter that you have no right to the information, note or proof of authority will help a suit.
Like it or not, as coarse as it sounds, it’s incumbent on each of us to build their financial coffins, board by board, nail by nail. A “QWR” goes a long way to doing that.
“Their offensive actions require an offensive defense.”
I have followed comments across the spectrum and most have common theme. BOA screwed me. I was in touch with BOA on an average of 2 times each month for 15 months. Customer Service Representatives assured me to I was eligible for a modification due loss of a job and heart surgery. I lost about fifty percent of my income. I completed every request for information required. Got Fedex letter tltelling me I would be approved for the modification. In August 2010 I was notified by mail from an attorney in Atlanta that my home would be foreclosed on in October. I believe the bank has commited fraud in lying to may of us. During most of the period of discussions I was told do not send any payments because my loans was going to be modified. I have in my possession two or three letters telling me in summer of 2010 that final approval was just a few days away. Suddenly the foreclosure letter.
I have followed comments across the spectrum and most have common theme. BOA screwed me. I was in touch with BOA on an average of 2 times each month for 15 months. Customer Service Representatives assured me I was eligible for a modification due to loss of a job and heart surgery. I lost about fifty percent of my income. I completed every request for information required. Got Fedex letters telling me I would be approved for the modification. In August 2010 I was notified by mail from an attorney in Atlanta that my home would be foreclosed on in October. I believe the bank has commited fraud in lying to many of us. During most of the period of discussions I was told do not send any payments because my loans was going to be modified. I have in my possession two or three letters telling me in summer of 2010 that final approval was just a few days away. Suddenly the foreclosure letter.
So … Lee … are you ready for a fight?
Rather than just replying to Don’s response, I think it best to post this in a separate item concerning fraud.
It has been stated by CEO Moynihan BofA will fight “put-backs” tooth and nail and expend their legal resources to avoid them. That has me thinking, “Why? Why would BofA expend so much resource?”
I now understand with perfect clarity. If BofA concedes to “put-back” demands, that is a de facto admission of being guilty of fraud. Understand that: it’s a DE FACTO ADMISSION OF GUILT.
Fast forward to the Uniform Commercial Code
§ 3-203. TRANSFER OF INSTRUMENT; RIGHTS ACQUIRED BY TRANSFER.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/3/3-203.html
UCC GS 3-203(b) specifically bars plaintiffs from enforcing a Note if it was directly or indirectly acquired by fraud or illegality affecting the instrument.
“•(b) Transfer of an instrument, whether or not the transfer is a negotiation, vests in the transferee any right of the transferor to enforce the instrument, including any right as a holder in due course, but the transferee cannot acquire rights of a holder in due course by a transfer, directly or indirectly, from a holder in due course if the transferee engaged in fraud or illegality affecting the instrument.”
That says the bank is screwed if they admit fraud with put-backs, forged docs, or perjuries – here’s why:
Technically, only the investor can seek consideration under the Note’s obligatory language, but if the rule of law prevails, he cannot foreclose because his instrument became unsecured by the division of his Note and the DoT that secured it. That division was done by defrauding the investor. The Note was involved in an “illegality”.
The investor can sue for the Note’s amount, but foreclosure is impossible unless the borrower wishes to voluntarily sell it to satisfy that obligation. I don’t believe investors will choose that option, I believe investors will saddle the banks for the entire MBS lot before suing the individual homeowners as their investment stands to lose much more than the “payment amounts”. It’d cost a fortune to sue hundreds of individual borrowers compared to suing one bank over one SUMBS (Screwed Up Mortgage Backed Security). So banks make up foreclosure documents to cover their behinds by illegally acquiring the properties. Again, by fraud involving the Note or its replicas.
This is going to get very interesting because if the RoL prevails and the investor sues the bank for a SUMBS and gets his money “put back”, all the unsecured Notes the investor held within that SUMBS may essentially be declared satisfied BECAUSE that specific language in Uniform Commercial Code quoted above states an obligatory instrument (the SUMBS and all the Notes that comprised it) cannot be enforced if any element of “fraud or illegality” is discovered, “directly or indirectly”, and “put-backs” from banks have a high probability of being regarded by courts as a de facto admission of them being guilty of:
You’ve got it: FRAUD, and that, my friends, makes your note that comprised a SUMBS party to it, thus NULL.
Any time after one put-back suit is adjudicated, I’m expecting to hear judges weighing in on that point of law and find the commission of fraud voided the banks’ claims to any rights.
Keith, what is meant by “put-back”
A “put-back” is where the investor who purchased a SUMBS demands the sale of an issue of bonds before maturity by forcing the issuer to buy back at par. IOW, they demand a refund of all their bonds at face value.
Keith … when I file, will you be on my legal team? *grin*
This isn’t legal advice, these are things I’m finding as I research for my own filing – a forced crash course in real estate and criminal law, if you will. Hope sharing them may encourage others to likewise become armed with knowledge of your rights.
If BofA thinks they can screw me with impunity, they will find out I can suddenly turn into one hell of an adversary.
———————————————————————-
One note I’d like to share:
The folks here may encounter the bank having filed a lost note petition. The same Uniform Commercial Code in § 3-309(a) requires the petitioner prove they were in possession of the Note prior to the loss and that proper assignment to the entity trying to foreclose was lawfully transferred and paragraph (b) reiterates and maintains:
“•(b) A person seeking enforcement of an instrument under subsection (a) must prove the terms of the instrument and the person’s right to enforce the instrument. If that proof is made, Section 3-308 applies to the case as if the person seeking enforcement had produced the instrument. The court may not enter judgment in favor of the person seeking enforcement unless it finds that the person required to pay the instrument is adequately protected against loss that might occur by reason of a claim by another person to enforce the instrument. Adequate protection may be provided by any reasonable means..”
That’s VERY specific language.
I actually saw one petition where the Note’s date of execution and the date of loss were the same, which on its face says “FRAUD” because if the instrument was issued by Lender A on 1/10/2000 but Servicer B says they had it and lost it as early as 1/10/2000, there’s no way possible they each had it on 1/10/2000, being separate entities. Make sense?
Now, if the bank is attempting to foreclose with a fraudulent Lost Instrument petition for which the assignment cannot be unquestionably proven as being from the principle to the agent, Section 3-203(b) applies and renders the foreclosing entity’s right to pursue without any further standing and subjects them to a possible counter suit for criminal conduct before the court.
It is my belief this is why many bank attorneys fail to appear in severely contested cases because, 1) as an officer of the court, the plaintiff’s attorney(s) would be attesting to fraudulent documents, libeling themselves and, 2) they know they have no case, no standing.
If you show the bank’s attorneys you are no push-over and that they could face criminal charges for misconduct in their representations on the bank’s behalf, you’ll begin to see them doing what Randy Kelton calls, “the chicken dance”.
Rep Darrell Issa (CA) is stating that home mortgages, COUNTRYWIDE must be a “priority” investigation. He will head some congressional committee, and thus carries a big hammer. a hammer that needs to come down on Bunch of A*******.
We should all forward communication to him, whether or not our repstitutes respond to us.
I’ll believe it when I see it. From what I’ve read, he is more interested in partisan witch hunts now that the republicans have taken back the house. The public will be distracted in the future about this whole foreclosure nightmare with baseless investigations, just as the public was when the republicans investigated Bill & Hillary Clinton.
Do you remember the bills passed while those investigations were going on???? Gramm-Leach-Bliley, which replaced Glass-Steagall and was one of the major proponents which led to our near financial collapse…and the Commodity Futures Modernization Act…which led to Enron screwing California, and wild speculation of oil which drove up the gas prices.
Excellent observations Tony.
This is a “must read” about Darrell Issa …
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-darrell-issa/the-hamp-hoax-how-the-oba_b_506253.html
It’s about the HAMP program and YOU.
OK everyone, get this…..On July 9th I went to court against bank of america on a foreclosure. I won without prejudice. They have received every payment of mine since they started this in September of last year. Now it’s been four months since we won and they are still sending me back everyone of my payments. Their lawyer has yet to inform them that they lost.
Below is the link for an article about certain states suing over deceptive practices by Countrywide(aka BOA). I also listed states that were included in this suit. I don’t know if it will help anyone but what can it hurt to try?
BofA in $8.6 bln settlement over Countrywide loans
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBNG28749420081006?pageNumber=1
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSBNG28749420081006?pageNumber=2
Attorneys general in 11 states, including Arizona, California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas and Washington, are participating in the settlement.
Joy-
that is the lawsuit i refer to in my complaint to the AZ Attorney general-a link to the full settlement document was posted earlier here by Don S-here is an excerpt of a letter i sent several days ago, direct to AZ Atty General-B of A said i was not eligible, as my first loan is a fixed rate “product”-they claim it only covered adjustable ARMS-
(i only send certified, return receipt requested mail)
“my mortgage is covered under consent judgement between CFC and the State of Arizona-#CV2009-006468, per the following stipulations-
“Subprime Mortgage Loans”-defined on page 9, line 1-”high risk features” low or no documentation.
“Qualifying Mortgages”-page 18, section 4.3C-”Subprime Loans-other than 2, 3, 5,7 and 10 hybrid ARMS. Qualifying mortgages that are subprime loans are eligible for the following loan modifications, in no particular order. . . “
Furthermore, B of A and CFC are in violation of the consent judgement, according to “Servicer Practices”-section 3 and 3.1, page 10. No “robust process” for early identification were made, and after I made contact with B of A in March 2010, no evaluation was offered or made in timely fashion. Repeated telephone contact initiated by me, documentation forwarded produced only repeated promises of mythical packages that never arrived and claims of “lost documents” It was in May 2010 that I resorted to filing a complaint with the State of Arizona, and communicating via certified mail, return receipt requested.
Telephone contact with B of A is worthless. Ms Parker sent me an email on 13 september indicating that she had not received documents-only after receiving scanned copy of proof of transmission emailed did she admit receipt of requested documents. I will only communicate with B of A via mail or email- .
There is a clear and persistent pattern of delay, frustration and obfuscation evident on B of As’ end. Review of dates of previous letters from me and response from B of A confirms this. CFC/B of A has violated the consent judgement-the State of Arizona should terminate same under the “remedies for Failure of CFC to cause Performance” provision as detailed under section 2.3 on page 10.
I only stopped paying my notes when it became clear that B of A clearly does not intned to honor consent judgement and only desires to foreclose on my home-the home I was current on for over 10 years.”
Hello everyone. I see that many people are constantly asking for info regarding a class action lawsuit to join. For those of you that would like to go that route you can find class action lawsuits at: http://www.bankclassactions.com. I am not going that route because other than the fact that the compensation will be small for all the malicious torture that BofA has put us through, it is easier for Bank of America to fight a few Class Action lawsuit than thousands of smaller ones. BofA will be forced to utilize more attorneys and it will be less cost-effective for them if it is an individual lawsuit. I am not going to make it easy for Bank of America because they have not made it easy for me. The ones who will engorge their pockets with a Class Action are the attorneys, they will get paid generously while the rest of you that are actually suffering the problem will get a few hundred dollars or a few thousand at the very most. I am in no way against using an attorney because I will probably do so, but I believe it is not fair that they get paid and the homeowner really doesn’t. Good luck to all of you who plan to sue the Devil encarnated, Bank of Destroying America with or without a class action lawsuit.
Lawyer info;
I agree the classactions I have been called back on are not going to benefit anyone but the lawyers. I found 4 attorneys in Dallas that attended the “boot camp” ( see http://www.maxgardner.com/downloads/03_14_08_news.pdf )another lawyer has done on foreclosures, you can find a list of lawyers in your area at his website ;
maxbankruptcybookcamp.com
Noticed a minor typo in one link. It should be …
http://www.maxbankruptcybootcamp.com
Here’s another tidbit from the UCC
§ 3-604. DISCHARGE BY CANCELLATION OR RENUNCIATION.
“•(a) A person entitled to enforce an instrument, with or without consideration, may discharge the obligation of a party to pay the instrument (i) by an intentional voluntary act, such as surrender of the instrument to the party, destruction, mutilation, or cancellation of the instrument, cancellation or striking out of the party’s signature, or the addition of words to the instrument indicating discharge, or (ii) by agreeing not to sue or otherwise renouncing rights against the party by a signed writing. ”
I believe “an intentional voluntary act” of “destruction” and/or “mutilation” of Notes has been committed.
I have a question, has anyone on here actualy gotton a loan mod ? If you did how did your paper work come to you ? Was there a notory there at the time you signed the paperwork. Thanks Woody
Woody,
I have gotten a modification after waiting over 10 months but not until I sent a complain to http://www.occ.gov. It seems like when I did that, everything went into motion. They sent my final documents to be signed the second week in October, and I got them notorized by my own notary and returned them via the overnight fedex envelope. I am still waiting on it to be made permanent and my terms and payment have yet to be made permanent as of today almost a month out. This modification has saved me around $70 a month but until the final signed document from BOA comes back, thats when I will know my nightmare is finally OVER!!
Woody,
After 11 agonizing months, hundreds of hours of phone calls, emails, letters, research and re-sending documents countless times, we just signed an in-house mod with BOA that saves us about $1,000/mo initially, then less as times goes on. But, no balloon,no hidden fees, no bull. It was an honest-to-goodness mod that saved us from foreclosure.
Just to back up, our household income reduced by 50% in the Spring of 09 when I was laid off, and our son had unexpected medical expenses. We initially had applied thru BOA for the MHA program. The Make Home Affordable mod offered to us was a joke…$70 less/mo. The letter from the MHA program with the trial payments had an 800 number, stating “if you can’t afford payments, call us…” which sounded like they wanted to help. They didn’t. The woman told me tersely it was the best we were going to get. She was wrong. We ended up refusing it, resigned ourselves to find a good attorney (& figure out how to pay for one), and were ready to leave our home if need be. We were so jaded after being jerked around for so many months.
I spoke openly of fraud after speaking with the MHA rep. She was in no way helpful as the letter had let us to believe. If you try to go thru the MHA channels, I’m convinced it won’t work. 31% of your gross income is not affordable to those with unemployment or medical costs in their household. My next step is to write a letter to our President. I don’t think this is what he had in mind when he proposed this program.
Only thru bull-headed persistence and yes, being nice but firm in every interaction, (plus luck, I’m sure) did I get to this resolution. For months, I was on the phone or email with the Office of Pres/CEO on a weekly basis, sometimes 2 times/wk. I developed a rapport with my contact there, pleaded my case, let her know we were willing to be totally transparent and collaborative & that we wanted to stay in our home.
We took a chance, declined the MHA and got BOA to grant us a reasonable in-house mod. We just signed this week w a notary and we are still in disbelief that it’s over.
Please send me any info that will allow me to become apart of the class action lawsuit aganst Bank of America. My wife and I have been put through so much over the last 14 months hoping to get our loan modified, we are at our wits end.
We live in Richmond, Tx and we need help.
Larry …
At your “wits end” is precisely where the banks want you.
Please have a glance around this forum to understand what I mean by that.
Also, please take the time to read my note to Randy on the previous page. You can access it by clicking on the light blue “Previous Comments” at the top or bottom of this column. It’s a little less than a quarter of the way down the page.
Then please read the 17 point “getting started” list posted near the bottom of that page.
Not to focus on my own posts, since there’s lots of folks writing in with tons of valuable information, but there’s two other posts below, one supporting Keith and another to Daisy, that you might find helpful orienting you to some of the basics.
It’s complicated.
That’s the way they like it.
This is literally a war, like it or not, and we don’t have much choice but to learn how to use the weapons in our arsenal to wage it.
Larry–
I live in Austin. I think I am close to finding a class action situation for people in Texas. This is not conclusive at this point (maybe a week away)–but seeing your post I wanted
to offer some hope. Email me at: rlmc1@yahoo.com
Let me add to and support Keith’s post above that discusses the “legal aspects” of how most of this works.
First, though, I have to address one particular “problem” about how this works. It’s not so much a problem as it is a natural evolution.
These citations and quotes are excellent, perfect … in fact … and really hit the nail on the head. Being an “amateur student” of legal principles most of my life (who didn’t love Perry Mason?) … oops, I just dated myself … or get addicted to “Law and Order” for at least a little while?
Well, the true answer to that is “not everybody” … but more importantly, those shows don’t teach you legal language … “legalese.”
The fact is, when most of us read something like “… the person required to pay the instrument is adequately protected against loss that might occur by reason of …” it’s so far outside our normal conversational English that all we really hear is “blah blah blah-blah blablah blah, blahblah blah” or as I like to say, the mumbled voices of adults from the Charlie Brown cartoons.
The banks, corporations, and powers-that-be LOVE the fact that we can hardly understand what they say.
Some weed through it and force themselves to get it. I’m like that. I find myself struggling to connect words and phrases to grasp what they mean. Fortunately, I have the motivation to grind through and get it … but for many, it’s just too much … not that they don’t want to, it’s just that it’s “foreign.”
Actually, for many, it can be even worse than that. “Legal stuff” can be quite scary. Intimidation is a big part of how courts operate … black robes and banging hammers, all this legal language being thrown around, big wooden gates separating “us” and “them,” two thousand dollar suits raising fingers authoritatively, and the intimidation of “the decision” which no one but these “authorities” seem to be able to make.
One of my reasons for mentioning this is quite simple …
I want to turn this image in peoples’ minds UPSIDE-DOWN.
The banks are literally banking on the [sad reality] that not only are people ignorant of the Law, but they’re too intimidated by courts, judges and lawyers to hold them accountable in court …
… and even when we do sue, people jump into a barrel with all the other fish … a class action … where they can pick us off for pennies on the dollar.
For some reason, it appears as though people have been convinced that a class action is somehow MORE powerful than an individual suit.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
It’s not “ganging up” on the person/corporation you’re suing. It’s literally standing in front of their machine gun sights where they can mow you down with one pull of the trigger … with ONE gun and ONE gunner.
It’s a complete illusion that your voices become magnified … louder … in a class action suit. It’s totally, completely and absolutely true that your individual Rights GET SQUASHED, and you agree to a decision based on the lowest common denominator … the LEAST benevolent to you, personally.
These are the things that are upside-down.
Now, many might say “It’s just too complicated.” I even hear others say, “I-just-want-my-modification-and-to-get-on-with-my-life,” maybe without actually using the words, but they’re saying it.
There’s a problem with that … I’m sorry to say.
As much as many of us simply want this situation to go away, letting us get back to our normal lives … IT WON’T.
Here’s why …
First, even though your house, mortgage and modification is the most important thing to you right now, in the scheme of things it’s what people call “chump change” to the big picture. It’s in the national news that the banks have been lying to EVERYBODY, including the people they sold your mortgage to.
You may have been bilked for thousands, maybe even your home, but those people were bilked for BILLIONS when your mortgage was bundled into packages and sold.
Secondly, and in fact, the banks CANNOT afford to admit they’re doing anything wrong on either side of the fence … that legal fence … regardless of how blatantly illegal it might have been. Admitting to one side or the other … you or the people (“investors”) that bought mortgages … opens a floodgate for lawsuits and losses in the tens of B-B-B-Billions of dollars.
So we come back to the “legal fence.”
If you “just-want-your-modification-and-to-get-on-with-your-life” that’s fine, and I’m sure there’s no one here that would keep you from that goal … but there’s one undeniable fact that none of us can avoid …
If they get away with this … THEY’LL BE BACK FOR MORE.
It’s unquestionable … unarguable.
As long as we’re intimidated by legal language and the courts and legal process, as well as the political system, they’ll use it against us and take what they want when they want it … which sooner or later will circle right back to your home … again.
Food for thought.
In the end, I’m hoping a high volume of people turn their view of courts and the legal process upside-down, ending their intimidation, and learn to use it to exercise their Rights … like you’d learn to ride a bicycle to exercise your legs. It’s a TOOL, not a “god” to be feared and obeyed.
In other words, KNOW you’re right, then force THEM to know it, too, using their own rules to prove it.
p.s. It also supports what Isabel and others have written.
Don, you are right once again (as usual). It is fair to say that most people here want to join a Class Action so that they can get a loan mod and get on with their lives. Sounds simple, right? Wrong. What is to say that later down the line you will not lose your house anyway after the smoke clears. This just gives BofA the opportunity to see you eventually crash and burn. They WILL try to take your house and within time make your life a living hell once again. I have not seen a successful loan mod story with Bank of America, it just doesn’t exist. In addition, a class action lawsuit will forfeit your rights as an individual and will provide you the least compensation possible and you will probably not be able to sue them again for future actions. Regardless, just being content with a loan mod after all this hell is not fair. BofA is commiting CRIMINAL activity and should be held accountable as such. If I were a small business owner and commited only half of the crimes that BofA has done so far (fraud, misrepresentation, breaking federal laws, etc), I would definitely have to serve some jail time and be fined a lot of money, that’s just how it’s supposed to be. So why is it any different for Bank of America? Bank of America is getting away with murder and their executives and attorneys need to also be held accountable for their criminal activity and be prosecuted as criminals. They are fully aware of their actions. If someone commited a crime against me I would definitely want the legal system to prosecute them to the full extent of the law. Bank of America IS commiting crimes against all of us.
In addition, it is just not right to settle for just a loan modification. We have all spent many months and some have spent years fighting these monsters. Why are we going to settle for just a loan mod? They were supposed to give us one in the first place. So we have to spend countless hours, limitless torture and our hard-earned money to get a loan mod and also pay for court and attorney fees so we can just get a settlement for what they were supposed to do in the first place? That’s just not right.
i comlained and wrote letters to everyone and everywhere.
i dont know if that helped me out but
i did receive a trial mod, and made my first payment last month.
i tracked the package, and have copies of everything.
so im waiting to see what happens after the 3 month
the funny thing is i NEVER spoke to anyone at boa.
everything was done via mail.
Daisy …
You DO know that a trial mod is NOT a permanent mod … right?
I don’t want to sound too simplistic, but it’s good to clarify details.
It’s been written in national news articles that the HAMP program is simply a “hook” that snares you into a trap … which the banks have no intention of fulfilling … and you’re strung along for as much as two years, making your “trial payments,” having an “underpayment” reported to the credit bureaus, building up late fees and so-called delinquent interest, short on your escrow …
… then …
… getting a notice of foreclosure, repossession and eviction.
Do you realize this?
It’s been widely discussed, both here and the national news, that the HAMP program is nothing more than a scam to illegally, immorally and in the most callous and vile manner, to boot you into the street so the banks can profit from the sale of your home.
They’re so anxious to possess homes and profit from them, there was even an instance where they sent a locksmith to change the locks on a home that wasn’t even in foreclosure with the owner INSIDE the house … and another instance where a woman in Pennsylvania wasn’t in foreclosure and they broke in, confiscated her pet parrot, and changed her locks … and even another where they didn’t have any right evicting where they shut off the electric, changed the locks and a full freezer of fish rotted.
Please try not to fool yourself that you’re on the right track.
What’s happened to me and virtually all the others on this forum, is that after the three months, they say noting, then later claim they lost your paperwork, then lose it again, and again, and again.
They’d really prefer that you got exasperated, exhausted, frightened out of your mind, emotionally drained and simply moved out of your house.
There’s really nothing to wait and see. It’s a process that’s been going on for at least two years happening over and over literally tens of thousands of times.
Please understand that number … “tens of thousands of times.”
Now, it needs to be said that “some” people get their modifications … but NO WHERE near a majority … far from it.
Hard to believe, but anyone here can echo my sentiments.
In fact, we’re going to be “echoing” legally by notarizing (legally recording) our experiences and placing them in a data base so others can use our statements in court.
Sorry if I’m sounding like a bummer. Please don’t shoot the messenger!
Thoughts on this anyone , Why all of the sudden after sending in my RESPA letter , is BofA now giving me a loan mod, could this be a trick to get me to sign a “NEW NOTE” thus they will now have a wet signed Note. I just can not understand why after getting several Denial letters that all the sudden they are doing this. Something just doesn’t add up here, any advise would be great.Thanks Woody
Woody …
Being the 13th and you posted on the 10th, I see you need some sort of response.
From what you’ve written, it sounds to me like you need to read every single word … and understand every single word … of the modification agreement they’ve sent or are sending to you.
That will answer a lot of questions.
It’s cliché … common to joke about … the fine print.
Contracts LIVE in the fine print.
But they can also DIE in the fine print.
Interesting thing about fraud.
In a previous post, I pointed out the fact that a participant in a contract that commits fraud nullifies the contract … but something else I know to be true is the fact that someone who COERCES a FRAUDULENT contract … meaning forces a contract or even aspects of a contract that any reasonable person wouldn’t normally agree to … that person or “entity” (corporation) is committing a crime.
Threatening you with living in a cardboard box instead of a home you’ve worked your ass off for is something I’d consider “coercion.”
Wouldn’t you?
Banks seem to have no problem working on the principle “Just move out stupid” …
… until we begin to assert our Rights.
Then they simply turn up the heat … in a variety of ways.
It defies logic, since pointing out their Statutory duty should set them straight … but it’s completely logical when you add the principle “They want what they want and don’t care how they get it.”
You can’t simply say “Wait, this is what you’re supposed to be doing.”
You have to SHOVE IT DOWN THEIR THROATS.
That’s the “game” as THEY have defined it.
There’s simply no choice.
hi don,
i thank you for the info. yes i am aware it is a trial.
i had taylor bean & whitaker bank, they gave me a special forbearnce. then they got shut down by the goverment, my loan was transferred to BOA. over a year now, i have applied 5 times, and i just received the 3 month trial.
do i trust BOA ? NO I DONT.
but i have not given up.. during the past year i have written letters of complaint to every place i could think of, and to places that this forum has mentioned.
im thankful for this site.
🙂
Woody,
I supposedly have got my modification. The final papers arrived yesterday by FedEx. I now have to call BOA and they will arrange for a notary to come to me to witness my signature or if I choose, I can get the papers notarized and send them by certified mail by November 18. Someone else posted yesterday that they also got their final papers and the notary will meet with them Monday. I want the notary to come to me because that way I have an additional witness should BOA decide my paper work was sent to late. As I have said previously, I am not counting on this being a done deal until everything is signed and returned to me. Just sign me cautiously optimistic(Joy)
My husband and I purchased 4 investment rental properties in 2007. Two of them were with BofA and two with Wells Fargo. We used the equity in our home to try and secure a future for our kids with these investments.
When everything crashed in 2009 I was not able to make the mortgage payments on my investments. I tried to do a workout with all of the banks to get my payments lower and be able to keep the properties but they said I did not qualify for anything so I got notice that the two banks that carried all four mortgages sent notice of sale. In 2009 I was forced to file bankruptcy because of the debt incurred. Two of the houses were located in the City of Portland. The City of Portland requires you to pay for water and sewer as well as keep the yard work and up keep on the outside done. Just before the house was to go back to the bank I got a notice from the City of Portland that the outside of the house need attention and I would be charged if the work was not done. My husband and I made the trip from Washington State where we live to Portland OR to clean the place up so we would not have any trouble later. We got to the house to find that the bank had already taken care of the problem.
I was still receiving bills from the City of Portland for the home I thought had gone back to the bank after I filed bankruptcy, I called the City to inform them that the bank took the house back. They told me that the sale and foreclosure had been canceled and the house was still in my name so I would continue to get utility bills from them. I tried to contact the bank to find out why the house had not been foreclosed. After two days of being shuffled from one person to the next I still had no answers about why they had not taken the house. I also received calls from the bank on several occasions asking me when I would make a payment on the loan. I told them I was in bankruptcy and they would
Receive notification from the court.
The bankruptcy was discharged November 30 2009. Bank of America continued to call and send letters requesting payments or offering a workout on the loan. PMI also sent a letter saying they could help me modify the loan. I called to check on it and I told them I had a discharged bankruptcy and they said they could not help me then. Bank of American continues to send letters adding insurance to the loan as well as other fees because of the delinquency on the loan that was included in my discharged bankruptcy.
Several months later we received another bill that the property needed yard work done or we would be fined. We figured that the bank would take care of it again only to receive another letter stating the work still needed to be done. We are on a very tight budget and having trouble paying our bills at home so we could not afford to make the trip and clean it up. We called our bankruptcy lawyer and he said that we could not force the bank to foreclose on the house but the loan had been included in the bankruptcy so we were not responsible for it. The City of Portland fined us $239.00 that will accrue monthly fees until paid.
I still continue to receive utility bills from the City of Portland so I contacted an Attorney to see if I could get this problem fixed. She wrote Bank of America and the City of Portland a letter as well as proof that I have a discharged bankruptcy and are no long responsible for the house or any charges accrued and we got a letter back from the City of Portland quoting case # 09-22617-7 that state I am responsible as long as the home is in my name. We have yet to hear anything back from Bank of America.
I asked my attorney if we could sue Bank of America and she said there is nothing I can do. She told me that I could contact my bankruptcy attorney and see if he could re-open the case so I could surrender the house back over to the bank and add the new charges from the City to the bankruptcy. I did that and I was told there is nothing I can do. He did suggest that I rent the house out until the bank takes it back. I am not able to do that as it would take a couple thousand dollars to get the house back into shape to rent as well as paying all the fines against it so my renters could have power, water, sewer ect. We live in Maple Valley Wa so it is not a quick easy commute to Portland to take care of anything.
My husband and I have lost a lot these last couple of years and things are not better yet. My husband got laid off for 5 ½ months and he is currently working a contract job that could end at any time. We have two teenage kids and we are struggling to make our bills at home. We fell behind on our house payment this last month and are trying to work with the bank that carries it to modify our loan so we do not lose it too. We are at a loss on how to take care of this mess with Bank of America. I know I am just another little guy that these big fat banks can just stomp on and no one can do anything to touch them but I think we have been through enough and I wish this would just get fixed! I was hoping maybe someone would have some suggestions for me.
It appears that the number of users, of this blog is growing! GOOD!!!
So here it is: I met with one of the “sharper” attorneys in the State of Oregon. I drove 80 miles one way to meet with him. He told me that he did not have the expertise to file a suit for me. He went further to say, that I was more knowledgeable about my problem than any attorneys he knows. He then said that if I filed a suit, most likely I would prevail, based on the evidence that I presented to him.
In lieu of the impending foreclosure, he suggested that I file a Chapter 13 bankruptcy immediately. He then gave me some names of attorneys to contact. I spent the morning talking to complete idiots, except for one attorney that YELLED at me for waiting to long…….He was a smart guy but said he needed $5,000.00 tomorrow to take the case. WOW and we thought predatory lending was the only screwing we were getting???
So I broke down and had a good cry, then my friend called and he has hooked me up with his para-legal friend (with a 27 year background in Bankruptcy) to help me file on my own.
I was advised that “my” case will take longer because I won’t have an attorney to give the farm away, at the first sign of smoke.
Well friends, I am exhausted and tomorrow is another day. I will keep you posted as the process reveals itself to me.
One last thing: I was advised by Christina Cardenas, my B of A negotiator, that my sale date has been moved to Dec. 29th. I asked for documentation and she said she could not provide it. I am going to the recorders office on Friday, to see if in fact the date has been changed.
Time to rest. Keep the good news coming!
P.S. still working on the wording for the affidavits. As soon as I have that we will be able to fill up the mailbox and help each other.
Good luck Lauren! I hope things turn around for you!
Lauren …
That’s great news that we’re getting closer to having a legal statement for the repository. I would be interested in seeing it before it went up. I’m “not bad” at that sort of thing and might have some suggestions … although “non-professional” naturally.
Funny thing about “non-professional.” It’s getting to the point where I’m considering the entire concept total illusion … meaning it doesn’t really exist. The quote from the lawyer you spoke to is an excellent example …
“… that I was more knowledgeable about my problem than any attorneys he knows.”
Why is it that we’re pounded from birth into believing the “professionals” know better than we do? Why is it that we are conditioned to rely on them, and ONLY them? It’s a prevalent theme in our culture … WHY?
This is a portion of the “deposition” of one of the robo-signers in Florida …
youtube.com/watch?v=s0pyouVwJnE
Couple of interesting points …
This guy is a “notary.” Now, what exactly does that mean? Each of you should look it up. We’ve reached the point where we can’t make a single assumption about any of this.
In this “deposition” he also stated he signed documents as the “vice president” of as many as 20 companies including Chase and Wells Fargo … of which he is NOT an employee, but was given “authority” by a “corporate resolution.”
Huh?
He also signed as many as 5,000 documents per day … as many as 60,000, spending less than a minute on each, as you’ve heard in the news.
What’s abundantly clear in this “deposition” is that this poor sap was literally ONLY doing what he was told to do by his superiors … and NOTHING more … including signing what he was told to sign, the WAY he was told to sign it, without knowing WHAT he was signing.
These are the documents that took peoples’ homes.
He didn’t even know what responsibility other people he worked with had.
Not only that, he signed thousands of “Assignment of Mortgage” documents, and admitted, under oath, that he didn’t even know the meaning of the phrase.
He also signed as the “attorney in fact” for several companies. He also said, under oath, he thought the meaning of the phrase “attorney in fact” was “the authority to sign” and clearly indicated that it was ONLY “the authority to sign.”
Huh?
Google “attorney in fact” and let me know what you read. I think you’ll find it means WAY MORE than that.
The abuse of The System is off the charts. It’s not even on this planet.
The majority of the video “deposition” of this poor, dumb sap “robo-signer” can be summed up … by a kindergartner … in one, single sentence …
“I just signed what they told me to sign.”
THAT’S what they want us to believe is a “professional.”
Can you say “crock”?
I can’t emphasize the following enough. I can’t decide whether I should be sitting by your side, patting your hand and explaining it gently, or be standing over you like a Drill Sergeant screaming it at the top of my lungs …
Whether you just want your modification and to get on with your life, whether you’re gearing up for a class action or individual lawsuit and desperately hunting for a “hero lawyer,” or converting yourself into a “legal warrior” to file a suit pro se (as your own attorney) …
PAY ATTENTION TO EVERY BLEEDING DETAIL.
Oops … the Drill Sergeant popped out … Sorry, I should have been patting hands.
If the banks … or the COURTS … think for one single second that you’re not turning over every single stone, showing every single violation, proving beyond any shadow of a doubt that you’ve been screwed, they’ll take advantage of your ignorance and lack of tenacity and throw you into the street or rule against you …
… and that’s EVEN IF you’re just looking for a modification.
Yelling “I just want my house” is a recipe for failure. Even yelling “I want someone to save my house” isn’t good enough.
As you have found, Lauren, YOU are the only one who can save your house … YOU are the “professional” dedicated to making sure you are not robbed. Whomever you might use or bring along in the way of advising you will be your EMPLOYEE, including any supposed “professional.”
Below, Anna starts her very first post on this forum with “I have been lied to countless times.”
How many times have we seen that in this forum?
Anna is an EXPERT on how many times she’s been lied to.
The way the The System functions … NOT the way we WANT The System to function … but the way it IS … makes it absolutely necessary that Anna becomes a “professional hero” to save her home.
We are being forced to learn and hold them accountable for every bleeding detail and every bleeding rule … even if all we want is a modification … without being screwed in the process.
Frankly, I’m beginning to literally, thoroughly enjoy hearing THEM say “Huh?” when they’re called on the carpet … like this poor, deer-in-the-headlights “robo-signer.”
Unfortunately, it may take a pair of handcuffs to force some of them to come to the same realization …
… which will only happen if every bleeding detail is brought out into the light of day.
I have been lied to countless times, had promises and all of what has happened to others, is happening to me. They (BOA) has lost paper work, never sent requests for missing paper work. According to the last rep, we didn’t even get approved for the HAMP, yet I have never gotten a single correspondance. I live in Colorado, and emailed the atty general and sent an email to the law firm in Washington. No law suits have been filed here though, and I want to start one, because I am sure plenty will follow.
Please email me someone who can help!!!
Anna …
Please see my note to Randy on the previous page. It’s my way of condensing both the situation and the meaning and purpose of this forum (which isn’t mine by the way).
To access the previous page, simply click on the light blue “Previous Comments” at the top or bottom of this column and scroll about a quarter of the way down the page to the post.
I would also suggest you read through the 17 point list at the bottom of that page. They are things folks on this forum have come up with to help the situation along.
I know it’s complicated and overwhelming. That’s the way the banks (and frankly, the legal system) likes it. The fact remains that our only, real hope in defending ourselves is to become knowledgeable warriors to save our homes. There are no heroes hovering over their computer screens waiting anxiously for us to ask for help.
For your own sake, please take the time to read through this forum and the posts of many knowledgable people who have come to understand the “war” we find ourselves in.
BOA update: Received a call from a Camille today from BOA, to tell me that she would be our new negotiator as the negotiator assigned to the case no longer works for BOA…kind of strange for her to call us to inform us of this. Still have to wait up to 60 days will MHA application is under review.
Has anyone else received similar phone calls about getting a new negotiator? Is this just another ploy for more delays. I want to believe that all the letters I’ve sent out are starting to make some head way, but can’t become confident because just when you think you’ve moved two steps in this process with BOA, the next time you talk to them you end up fifteen steps backwards.
One more interesting item: My Mom received a notice from BOA that starting in January 2011 her interest rate will be reduced from 3.5% to 3.0% which knocks $32.00 off of her monthly mortgage payment. We aren’t sure why this has happened, new negotiator couldn’t tell us anything.
Everything we receive from them is looked upon suspiciously. Is this going to come back and bite my Mom in the rear. Is BOA going to come back in 6 months or a year telling her she owes xxx amount of dollars? You would think the letter received stating the interest change would be on the up and up wouldn’t you? And is hard copy proof if they do try to attempt anything funny later?
Thanks Don for your WISDOM. I needed that!
So I turn on my computer and somehow I am no longer receiving the posts from this site, in my email. Hummmm Anyone else having that problem?
Ok, I called the only attorney in my area, that is on Max Gardners’s list. Well I got his assistant and was told for $3,500 they MIGHT be able to make time to talk to me. Just talk, not take on my bankruptcy case. I still have not got a call back to see if I can “just talk” . His name is Kent Anderson, in Eugene Oregon. Just in case anyone in Oregon has an extra $3,500 to throw at an attorney, to just talk…..
So you can see what we are up against folks. The SHARKS are on both sides of the boat. It would be good if anyone who has found a sympathetic somewhat honest attorney, if they would post their name and city so that others, using this site, can find them.
Don I will email you the “affidavit” as soon as I have it.
I will keep you posted on my progress as Pro-se.
Lauren,
Email me. I may be of some assistance to you – at least I hope so.
Hey Keith,
I tried to send you my email yesterday. Maybe it didn’t get to you so here it is again:
yepekyadeo@yahoo.com
yes Lauren…I have also found I am not receiving the posts to this forum in my e-mail. I thought that was odd!!
It’s about time, I knew this was going on for two years. Bank of America finds us eligible for “in house modifications” and we know we are eligible for Government assistence, accordining to Hope and Huds Natinal servicing center. We are tax payes ,too, what about us?
Keith my email is yepekyadeo@yahoo.com
Still not receiving any posts………………..
EMERGENCY NOTIFICATION
Wall Street money is busy acting against us. It appears they are using the “lame duck” Congressional session to rifle through legislation that will LEGALIZE … and RETROACTIVELY … all of the MERS scams and debacles, which includes the destruction of paper mortgages.
That would mean REVERSING a basic principle of law that you must have the paper contract to HAVE a contract, as well as a paper trail to prove ownership.
WE CANNOT LET THIS HAPPEN.
livinglies.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/pardon-livinglies-obtains-wall-street-playbook-mers-to-be-legitimized-by-act-of-congress/
Please forward this link to EVERYONE you know, with at least a brief explanation of what MERS is. Most people don’t know.
If YOU don’t know, I’ll be putting up another post … and Keith and others we could use some help here … that will give a basic understanding of MERS is and how it can NEVER be legalized … ESPECIALLY retroactively. It would literally be legalizing crime and undermining basic principles of contract law.
MERS was a fraud from the start and Wall Street wants to buy a Get Out of Jail Free card for it.
PLEASE become involved in this. Contact your politicians, attorneys general, the OCC, your friends and family … we cannot let them even THINK they can do this.
Thanks.
Hello everyone. I am not receiving updates via email about new posts also. Anyway, I am still having difficulty trying to find an attorney who wants to fights this monster and I am also considering going pro se. That has also been an option for us especially since we are not filing a class action. It really bothers me when I read about what happened to Lauren. An attorney asking for $3,500.00 just to talk to you? What the heck!! Who is he supposed to be, Johnnie Cochran? This is ridiculous! We are supposed to fight this monster with the help of these sharks who are taking money that we can’t afford in the first place? I don’t trust most attorneys and some of them will sell you out if they are offered good money from the other guy (ie Bank of America). From what I am able to comprehend after many months of trying to persue a lawsuit against Bank of America ourselves, no attorney is really willing to help the little people unless you have the $$$$$. Hey, if I had the cash, I wouldn’t be in the pickle I am in right now. I am sick of these money-hungry delinquents. At least if I go Pro se, I won’t charge myself a lot of money and I won’t stab myself in the back.
I have a suggestion. I have contacted local news media and we already have 2 news stations that will gladly show up to cover our story on our court date. All large companies hate that negative media attention! For all of those who will be going to court with an individual lawsuit with or without an attorney, call your local news stations and tell them your story.
Folks …
Since we’re approaching 2,000 posts, it’s reasonable to assume that the owners of this forum would prefer that our use of it be terminated since it probably wasn’t intended to perpetuate such a massive discussion.
I’d ask the owners to reconsider. Their hearts were in the right place when forming the web site, but the environment has changed considerably.
These are fundamental Constitutional Rights on the line … not just “chat” about disputes. This is proving to be the literal emergence of widespread “domestic economic terrorism” … not just plain, ol’ lawsuits.
I appeal to the owners to allow us to continue our discussion. This is not “business as usual.” The average common man or woman WILL end up in the street without resources like this one … specifically. It cannot simply be replaced or move elsewhere.
I commend the owners for tolerating our ravings, but must point out that termination would not serve “the pubic good” … which is in DESPERATE need of good at the moment.
Banks have billions in resources and tens of thousands … no, strike that … hundreds of thousands of employees, many of them attorneys. These average people are having a hard time finding ONE attorney, and have minuscule resources compared to the banks.
It’s clear dozens are active, more arriving daily, and perhaps hundreds more monitor discussions. When that communication ceases, these odds become massively stacked against the innocent.
Please allow us to continue.
Don and all,
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This is alot to read and maybe over my head, but in simple terms, what do I need to do to be involved in a class action lawsuit of BOA? I attempted home loan modification, but none of the paperwork I sent for over 9 months repeatedly ever got addressed. They then said I didn’t meet requirements and proceeded with foreclosure. This is not a case of high over priced dream home. My loan was under $80K. So I ended up having to file a CH. 13 to save my home. Now, they are contesting the outstanding balance due amount filed. And I can’t get a straight answer on the figures if my life depended on it. I wrote to my Congressman but no response. It’s with my attorney right now. Nothing may come of this in my case, but for everyone else out there I am sorry and I hope and pray that you get your due justice.
Sue …
Yep … you’re right. It is a lot of reading.
Recognizing that, I’ve tried to be a filter/condenser to sum things up, particularly for newcomers. Happy to do it. On the previous page, about a quarter of the way down, you’ll see a note I posted to Randy. That may help in some small way.
There’s also a 17 point “getting started” list near the bottom of the previous page. That you may need even more. It sounds like you’ve actually discovered some things on your own, but the list is the culmination of wide experience with this situation and could help. Simply click on the light blue “Previous Comments” at the top or bottom of this column.
One thing you may notice in the list is the suggestion to call your Congressman, or any of your political representatives. I’ve found personal contact, even just a voice on a phone, can make a difference to the way people react. My only negative was Arlen Specter, who is on his way out anyway. All the others have been both helpful and even enthusiastic. Both the PA Attorney General and the OCC were “happy” to assign my complaint and file it with the bank.
You should also brush up on what a RESPA/TILA (Truth in Lending Act) letter is.
And this part is for everyone here …
RESPA letters are turning out to be more than just a thorn in the banks’ sides. They CANNOT afford to release the information requested … particularly blue ink mortgage contracts to be traced down and justified … much less any false charges or other fraudulent paperwork or processes.
THEY WILL FIGHT YOU TOOTH AND NAIL for any information, including making FALSE statements that you aren’t entitled to the information. They simply can’t afford to let it get out.
Be prepared for a fight when you send it in …
… BUT …
You are FULLY entitled to the information you request under the law. Their denial or false statements can be used against them … so USE THAT … and make sure any regulatory or political oversight is kept informed of their shenanigans.
Those are flood gates that not only WILL open, WE need to pull their fingers out of the dike … and force them to adhere to the law.
How do I join the class action suit. I have been dealing with BOFA for 21 months. I have been approved 4 times for a remodification and 4 times BOFA reneged on their remodification. They added nearly $60,000 to my principal, then they had the audacity to tell me to reapply after approving 4 times. I really want BOFA to go out of Business. I am being forced to short sale my home.
Please let me know how I can get into this law suit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rick …
Please see my note to Sue above. Your story echoes virtually all of us on this forum. You’re not alone (now) and there ARE things you can do.
Your education is just starting. Please look through the forum, as well as the suggested posts.
Y’all pay particularly close attention to this:
Bank Of America Wants Judge To Throw Out Racketeering Lawsuit Over ‘Robo-Signers,’ Foreclosures
“The largest U.S. bank said the Indiana plaintiffs, who lost their home to foreclosure in 2009, failed to show they were harmed by its alleged practice of routinely submitting perjured affidavits, given they might have lost their home anyway.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/11/bank-of-america-wants-foreclosures_n_782396.html
We need a robo-signer to attest document of the bank’s CEO’s sales of their cars, personal items, homes, etc. because if the court throws this out, the rule of law is forever lost and it’ll be only a matter of time the entire social fabric unravels.
Maybe the Myans were right – 2012 may see the biggest upheaval among mankind as was never seen before.
Keith …
They’re redefining the word “nerve.”
Actually, that’s not true. Jesse James and Al Capone tried it long before they did. In fact, weren’t there a few Caesars and a couple of Czars, as well as an Emperor or King here and there who have tried it?
Naturally, no one wants the upheaval you suggest. But you have to admit that it’s almost as if they’re standing on the street corners with bull horns shouting “Please! Please! Revolt against us!”
Japan thought we were that stupid, too. Even Yamamoto, the admiral in charge of the attack on Pearl Harbor said it … “I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant and filled him with a terrible resolve.”
Who do the banks think that giant WAS?
THEM?
Hardly.
Maybe MERS will be our Pearl Harbor. Regardless, it’s not hard to see one just over the horizon. We have our nay-sayers and “isolationists” like they did back then, but there will be a “waking moment” for the giant.
Maybe we are destined to be America’s “Second Greatest Generation” … and our battleground will be in the courts and the floors of the House, Senate and State legislatures.
Drug dealers INSTANTLY get their private property confiscated, whatever they are … cars, boats, planes, houses, furniture …
Why not “banksters”?
Isn’t profiting from misery … well … profiting from misery?
What’s the difference?
Besides, RICO laws already cover this. I just looked it up.
Strip ’em bare, then sell it all off to help displaced and distressed homeowners. Give the government a cut … like a cookie for a job well done.
this is major-an AZ judge has ruled that b of a must produce the original note, and complete files in a foreclosure case brought by a pro se litigant.
livinglies.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/head-bkr-judge-in-az-just-ruled-bony-mellon-must-produce-the-custodial-records/
My letter to Mr.Fine at the Department of Justice.
Don, I hope you don’t mind but I used some of your post text.
Mr.Fine,
I, as an American citizen am asking you, .. when is your department going to do something
about the LARGEST case of Fraud in American history ?????
You and your agency are on the spot here, .. there’s no excuse, .. no “explaining” this away, and no reason these people shouldn’t
fail and be put in jail, .. just like any other American who committed such a large scale crime.
Who is this effecting you may ask?, .. follow the link below, just one of THOUSANDS of web blogs with
stories of the abuse we are seeing from the Banking industry.
https://classactionlawsuitsinthenews.com/class-action-lawsuits/bank-of-america-mortgage-modification-class-action-lawsuit-filed/
Another example is in the recent story published in RollingStone,
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/232611
It’s in newspapers and magazines all over the country, .. on TV news, .. and yet on real action from the DOJ ???
Now I realize the government needs to financial system to help track citizens income so it can tax the Hell out of us, ..
So the FED won’t let the banking system die, .. but enough is enough !!!!!!!!!!!
I will fully expect a reply to this, .. and please no simple little form letters, .. I want an open and honest discussion about this.
What YOU going to DO ????????
MERS? What’s that? Emergency!
Please, please, please take a minute of your time to read about this.
Whether you have mortgage troubles, whether you even HAVE a mortgage, there is an emergency looming out there you REALLY need to know about.
I’ll spare you long-winded explanations. None of us have much time … or patience … these days.
But this is something you NEED to know.
Congress is about to be influenced … by Wall Street … to undermine one of the most basic Rights we have … protections under contract law, or Statutory Law.
Quick history …
Back in the 90’s the banking industry was gearing up for a housing boom … which happened in the early 2000’s. Some say it was manufactured.
Anyway, the bankers wanted to “streamline” paperwork in regards to mortgages and who owns them … so they said.
So the MERS system was invented … Mortgage Electronic Registration System.
But there was an immediate problem … now manifesting itself in the most horrible of ways.
The entire system has recently begun to be proven in the courts that it is ENTIRELY BASED ON FRAUD.
IMPORTANT FACT: In this country, when you have a contract, it is a fundamental principle that your contract has to be ON PAPER … or there is NO contract.
This is a CRITICAL control factor in maintaining stability between “contractees.” It eliminates any question of what parties have agreed to … it’s written on PAPER … and it can’t be changed.
The MERS system DESTROYED 40% of its 65 million “registered” mortgages.
They no longer EXIST.
Not only that, the system is proving to be RIFE with fraud in connecting the OWNERSHIP of mortgages … an equally important legal principle. Each change of ownership has to be LEGALLY recorded, but case after case is revealing they were NOT.
Wall Street, home of the bankers that initiated this fraud, are now drafting legislation that will be pressed through the Lame Duck session of Congress to LEGALIZE what MERS has done.
THIS CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO STAND.
If this legislation is even CONSIDERED by Congress, they will be consciously undermining some of the most basic principles and protections in Statutory Law.
That effects YOU … regardless of your mortgage status … since it will effect EVERY contract from now until the end of time, keeping you or the courts from EVER trusting another contract … since it will not exist on a piece of paper that cannot be altered … your sacred signature will CEASE TO EXIST in reality on any document you sign.
MERS CANNOT BE LEGALIZED.
It would be legalizing fraud on a MASSIVE scale … perpetrated in the past, and for the foreseeable future.
check this out, ..
youtube.com/watch?v=eb1n1X0Oqdw
The issue of the wet note. What are some of you trying to say? That if the wet note/original blue ink cannot be found, that you should not have to pay for your house? what does that have to do with people who still owe money on their house? I still owe a good deal. Are you saying that I can go to the mortgage company & make them present the original blue ink wet note and if they cannot produce it, then I can stop paying my mortgage?
I am serious. I am not putting anyone down. I want to know. Is the systems so messed up that this is what it might come down to if the people here & the many out there like the people here get their way?
That those of us with a mortgage will not have to pay off that mortgage & own our home without paying it off? I know it may not sound honest, but I paid a lot of interest already. I feel the bank already made out on me – and I mean a lot!
I dont want to pay for my home if others may not have to pay for it either.
Cynthia …
Let’s say you’re in school and the school board has just announced that all students need to pay for the use of their lockers.
At an assembly, the principal makes the announcement and explains the rules.
First, anyone can pay cash for the locker, but very few students can afford the $10 charge.
Second, anyone can borrow from anybody else to pay for their locker, but the “transaction” has to have an IOU written on paper saying who is loaning and who is borrowing and for how much, as well as when it will be paid back and how much interest is charged.
Third, all IOUs have to be recorded with the student’s homeroom teacher. Each time an IOU is recorded, the teacher gets a dime. That’s whether it was the original IOU or some later “transaction.” And because the student council watches over things, they get a penny.
Fourth, anyone who loaned money for the lockers can sell their IOUs. Also, anyone can buy them. However, each time an IOU is sold, it has to be recorded by the original locker owner’s homeroom teacher, telling who is buying the IOU so everyone knows who owns it.
No IOU is any good if it hasn’t been recorded with homeroom teacher. No IOU is any any good if anyone loses the piece of paper. No IOU is any good if someone forgets to record their sale with the homeroom teacher. The student council watches over the system. Each time the student council listens to a complaint or argument, they get fifty cents.
Anyone who breaks the rules can get expelled from school.
Let’s say a kid named nick-named Sharkie loans a lot of locker money so kids can have lockers. Sharkie collects a ton of IOUs. They could be for good lockers in great locations or crappy lockers way off in far away corners that nobody wants. They could be from good students he knows will pay or from students that couldn’t pay even with a full year’s lunch money.
Now let’s say Sharkie’s friend, Bobbie Greedly, sees Sharkie getting a ton of IOUs and knows how much interest Sharkie is going to be getting for the lockers. Bobby Greedly offers Sharkie a ton of money for all those IOUs. It’s just a little less than Sharkie would get if he collected all the debts.
Knowing he won’t have to wait to collect, Sharkie sells many of his IOUs to Bobbie.
Now …
Both Sharkie and Bobbie Greedly know it will cost a ton of dimes to go to each homeroom teacher and record each IOU, since the rules say each one has to be recorded.
Bobbie gets Harriet Geekly to scan all the IOUs into a computer. After all, a picture of the IOU is as good as the IOU, isn’t it? Entering the sale of each IOU in the computer is good enough, isn’t it?
Along comes Hans Gimmemore, an exchange student from Germany. He wants to buy some of Bobbie Greedly’s IOUs, so Bobbie and Hans make a deal. Hans hands over his money and Harriet records the sale on the computer. Every time Harriet does something she gets a penny.
Meanwhile, a few people have recorded sales, not involving Sharkie, Bobbie or Hans, of other IOUs with homeroom teachers. The teachers collect dimes and are quite happy. The principal is back in his office arguing about silly things with the school board.
The teachers are happy because they’ve gotten a few dimes. The student council is happy because they’ve collected a many pennies. They even had a few disputes they needed to listen to and got fifty cents here and there. They like that.
One day Sharkie realizes most students are busy listening to their iPods, chatting and texting. They couldn’t care less who owns their locker. Besides, they hardly ever use them. So he goes to the student council.
He tells the student council that certain students will never pay for their lockers. He asks the council if he can boot the deadbeat students out, then resell the lockers to someone who will pay. Sharkie is completely IGNORING the fact that he sold many of the IOUs to Bobbie, and even Hans bought some.
The student council agrees, and gets fifty cents for each time a student is kicked out of his or her locker. The student council is very happy.
This is despite the fact that Sharkie didn’t show the original paper IOU to the student council, just a picture of them on the computer. The council says “ok” anyway. The council also forgets that each time an IOU is sold, it has to be recorded with the homeroom teacher. They also don’t ask whether Sharkie sold any of the IOUs.
Sharkie is playing with the system to make money off of changing the ownership and cost of lockers. He knows that almost nobody is paying attention. Bobbie and Hans know everything, though, since they are all friends. They’re happy because Sharkie is making their IOUs worth more.
In the lunchroom one day, Amy Getalong (who is on the student council) mentions to Sharkie that he didn’t record the locker sales with homeroom teachers the council let him take back . Sharkie excuses himself for a minute, quickly goes to Harriet. In a rush, Sharkie tells Harriet to print out a list of locker sales that has a title at the top of the page “Locker Sales Recorded with Homeroom Teachers.”
Even knowing it’s against the rules, Harriet prints the list and Sharkie speeds back to Amy.
Bobbie hands the list to Amy. She looks at it and say “Ok, I was just wondering.”
By now, nobody really knows who owns what locker by the rules … but nobody really cares or is paying any attention.
Harriet threw most of the IOUs away knowing she’d scanned them. She knew about the “must be on paper” rule, but didn’t care. They were filling her backpack and making a mess.
Teachers were seeing enough dimes when they recorded something. They weren’t asking any questions.
The student council was getting pennies from the records, too, and were also getting fifty cents now and then to listen to disputes. They were happy and not asking questions.
Most students just keep going to class or texting or listening to their downloads … but many started going to their lockers and couldn’t get in. The janitor changed the locks and many have been emptied since the student council said it was ok.
Lots of student’s didn’t really care. They just collected their stuff from the janitor and went back to their friends, music, iPhones and iPods.
But lots of students were getting upset. They wanted a locker to keep all their extra stuff and thought they paid for it. Some go to the student council and some go to their parents.
The student council takes the fifty cents to listen to each student, but simply tells each student that they didn’t pay and the locker now belongs to someone else.
Parents of some students call the school board and the principal. The school board and principal tell the parents, “There are rules and everything is working fine,” and went back to arguing amongst themselves about silly things.
The parents went back to the students and told them, “Everything is working fine. There are rules.”
Meantime, the number of students without lockers is skyrocketing. No one seems to care that they have to carry all their extra stuff around with them. Not only that, but the original price for a locker was $10. Now, months later, a locker costs $40 since Sharkie, Bobbie and Hans started playing with who owns them and how much you have to pay to get one.
Some students still have their locker, but since some of them are way back in a corner, they couldn’t get a dollar for it, yet now owe $40 plus interest to one of these three students playing with the system. At least they think they know, but most of them think it’s Sharkie.
Mike Khonest, who owns a $20 locker, starts checking into what’s going on. Even though he’s in the middle of studying for three final exams, he starts asking questions.
He talks to Harriet who tells him Hans owns his locker IOU. Sharkie finds out Mike is asking questions and goes to the student council to get the locker back. They agree without checking or reading anything, collecting their fifty cents, and tell Sharkie the locker is now his.
Mike goes to the homeroom teacher and asks who owns his locker IOU. The teacher answers “There are rules and everything is working fine.” Mike goes to the principal asking the same question and he answers “There are rules and everything is working fine.”
Mike then goes back to his locker and finds the lock changed.
He hunts down the janitor, quite upset, and the janitor tells him “I just do what I’m told. Here’s your stuff,” then shuts the door to the storage room where he is hiding.
Mike is stunned.
He has no locker. He wrote an IOU for $10 plus interest to get one and is now locked out of it. He hears from the student council that he now owes Sharkie that money, plus what the student council THINKS it’s worth … $40. Nevermind that it’s way in a back corner and he couldn’t get a dollar for it even if he could get into it.
Because of how the IOUs were sold back and forth from Sharkie to Bobbie Greedly and Hans Gimmemore, Sharkie was able to convince the student council it was worth more … AND … was able to convince the council that he could have the locker AND collect the new debt.
They didn’t care. They got fifty cents every time Sharkie came to them. Nevermind that Mike Khonest never had a chance to tell his side of the story.
Now, the rules said …
No IOU was any good if it wasn’t on paper.
All IOUs had to be recorded with homeroom teachers.
Anytime an IOU was sold to anyone else, the transaction needed to be recorded with homeroom teachers … or the IOU was no good.
At this point almost everybody is saying “There are rules and everything is working fine,” and that includes teachers (local courts), the principal (attorney general), the parents (the press) and school board (the government).
Nevermind that Mike Khonest is being told he can’t have a locker, but still needs to pay. Who or how much, he really isn’t sure.
Nevermind that Hans Gimmemore doesn’t really own the locker, neither is it worth $40, but he has a picture of the IOU and has paid Bobbie for it.
Nevermind that Harriet threw many of the original IOUs away, including Mike’s, but thinks it’s still a good IOU since she has a picture of it.
Nevermind that the teachers saw dimes coming in, but didn’t check to see if each of the transactions stuck to the rules.
Nevermind that the student council was perfectly happy listening to people argue, collecting both fifty cents to hear the argument, and collected the pennies for recordings what are now false transactions, but pretty much just went along with whatever Sharkie wanted.
Nevermind that the principal was too busy arguing with the school board to check and make sure everything was working right.
Nevermind that the school board couldn’t have cared less about whether things were working right and just wanted the locker money.
Nevermind that Sharkie, Bobbie Greedly, Hans Gimmemore and Harriet Geekly should all be expelled for breaking every rule of the locker payment program, not to mention being fined, including the return of every penny they took while they broke the rules.
Nevermind that teachers should be disciplined or fired for completely neglecting whether transactions were correct, including returning every dime they falsely took on transactions that were incorrect, breaking the rules.
Nevermind that the principal should not only be fired, but personally fined for ignoring the entire situation.
Nevermind that the school board never had the right to demand payment for lockers, and even if they did should only be about a dollar each, and very board member should stand trial for abuse of power and robbery.
Nevermind that parents should be totally ashamed of themselves for simply trusting that everything was ok.
It also turns out that Sharkie’s mom, dad and uncle are on the school board.
So is Bobbie Greedly’s aunt
It also turns out that the principal is a cousin to Hans Gimmemore’s dad, even though Hans isn’t even from this country.
It also turns out that Sharkie has been going around school bullying students in and out of lockers whenever he wanted just to get the cost of a locker higher. He’s been paying the janitor a quarter every time he changed a lock.
So …
Out of a simple program to collect a few dollars for the use of lockers, everybody but the students using the lockers should GO TO JAIL or be severely disciplined or fined for being greedy, oblivious, stupid or conspiring against students for a simple locker … and collecting pennies, dimes, quarters and dollars they never had the right to in the first place … as well as ignoring the original rules … AND inflating the price of a locker just to make more off of them.
So … Cynthia … where is your original IOU? Your “wet note”?
Thanks Mr Pennsylvannia, I did have to read that a few times. I really dont know about my wet note but I am going to look into it. My loan originated about 7 years ago & absolute aholes courted me & promiced me this & that and then just before the the closing additionall charges were thrown in. The interest rate was higher too but I wanted the house & made all my plans. They really had me I guess. Then they sold the loan to Country wide. I did not have any problems with them. Then Country wide sold to Bank of America. To tell the truth I dont have any problems as of yet with BA. But it is a struggle & being a news person I see a lot of news on the subject so I started googling & found this blog very easily. Being that the loan has sold a few time there may be a chance the original wet note is not avail?? I am going to make some calls. All my fury is coming back now at how I was treated and again! how they have may so much money on me & wehn you add up all they will be making if I ever do pay off the loan, I feel it is criminal to enslave people in such a bad way. I know no one held a gun to my head but they knew I was the vulnerable one & so I feel victimized in a way.
Cynthia …
The best way for you to check into it, in fact the only way without a lawsuit … which includes what’s called the “discovery process” … is with a RESPA/TILA (Truth in Lending Act) letter … called a “Qualified Written Request” (QWR) which has been discussed on this forum.
One thing to keep in mind about such a letter …
Even though the banks are required by law … which means they can be found guilty and fined, and if serious enough can be sentenced to jail … to answer your QWR, people are finding that not only are the banks refusing to answer, they’re telling people they don’t even have the right to ask.
This is false.
Ok … let me make this crystal clear …
They are LYING.
Not only will they lie, they’ll turn up the heat and find some other way to attack you … like some additional filing in court against you.
This is happening for a very specific reason, not just because they don’t want to modify … which they don’t.
If they let people find out … (bring it into public view in ANY way, particularly in court) … that they’ve lied in ANY way, they will be opening themselves up to thousands of lawsuits and B-B-B-Billions of dollars of awards from BOTH homeowners and the investors that bought mortgage “bundles.”
The investor side of the story is very important.
Our individual mortgages are teenie-tiny in comparison to these monster “packages” they sold … some multiple times … to huge investors both here in the United States and overseas.
These packages were ALSO based on lies … fraud … and they simply can’t allow anyone under any circumstances to prove they told lies.
If homeowners prove they lied, the investors have a better footing to sue. If investors prove lies, homeowners have a better footing to sue.
But there’s an EQUALLY important factor.
If the banks “settle” out of court … meaning their lies never make it to the public or the open court record … it will be easier to put a lid on the “lie factory.”
Problem:
This theory is terrific (for criminal minds) when you have small situations that are easy to squash … but hundreds of thousands of homes and thousands of major investors, some involving B-B-B-Billions of dollars cannot be held behind an “artificial dike.”
The “too-big-to-fail” people have ignored the fact that there’s such a thing as “too-big-to-keep-a-secret.”
At least they’re stomping their feet and fists insisting they can.
Wrong.
It’s only a matter of time.
It’s not a matter of shutting up people like me, which I’m sure they’d love. The simple fact remains … and it IS a fact, not just a guess … that more and more people become aware of their criminality every day. There will be a point where it simply can’t be stopped no matter how hard they try.
The “smart ones” in middle management … and there are thousands … who know what is going on, will be getting “smart” seeing the writing on the wall, and start testifying against their bosses …
… it’s inevitable.
When people come to understand that THEY can be held personally liable … fines and maybe jail … for their bosses’ schemes, they’ll start pointing fingers like a mob with pitchforks and torches … just to save their own asses.
But we have to be vigilant. Nothing is a sure thing … although “inevitable” will hold true regardless. Each of us working to expose all this will certainly accelerate the process.
I’d prefer this came to a screeching halt sooner rather than later.
They literally think they’re “untouchable.” I contend that, once awakened, the average American is untouchable, simply because we’re Right and they’re Wrong.
“Waking Up is Hard to Do.”
… but we eventually do it.
p.s. If you decide to pass this little story on, I have a slightly edited version with minor corrections and adjustments that are best for emails … donsweet@verizon.net.
Perhaps some good news…….I spent last week talking with attorneys and some folks that have started a grassroots movement to help with stopping foreclosures.
You can go to their website at: goodgriefamerica.ning.com lots of good info there.
Also if you have a sale date and Recon Trust is your trustee, you can check on your sale date by going to their website at:
http://www.recontrustco.com
I believe whoever is your trustee has a website, so the above probably applies to them also. You have to look in the “For Sale” area of their website.
B of A would not give me proof that my sale date had been “pushed” but Nancie at Good Grief taught me how to find and keep track of it.
I am going to my County to get copies of ALL the recorded documents from the inception of my loan. After I have those I will be taught how and what to look for, so that I can determine if I can go to court and remove B of A out of my life. I have been advised that I will need an attorney to do that and it will cost around $3,500.00 to $5,000.00. So be prepared people to spend that kind of money to get your house free and clear and away from y the entities trying to steal it from you.
REMEMBER it is those entities that crashed the Real Estate market and caused your jobs and your property to go underwater.
As I do the process I plan on educating others, on this site and in my area, that would like to help themselves.
I want to start an email tree, so that no one has to post their email on this site. I will get that done early next week.
FWIW, LandSafe and Recon Trust are wholly owned subsidiaries of BofA, devised to extract more fees through racketeering.
Most DoT’s and Notes required that the Servicer could only charge a one time late fee on the amount of the payment due in one month. Any other fees/charges had to be incurred by a third party and “reimbursed” by the borrower.
That’s not the case with these sham business subsidiaries. Someone needs to sue BofA for that scam because they:
1) employ the same personnel, thus there’s no “extra” expenses incurred,
2) receive full benefit from “default related service” charges – they don’t pay out the fees they’ve charged,
3) have possibly engaged in a RICO prohibited action by extortion.
Keith … I’m wondering if the 50 (or so) Attorneys General are looking at RICO. Personally, if I were one, I’d be looking at “domestic terrorism,” under the Patriot Act and any other that would apply. How is it not terrorism when they take peoples’ homes? What more terrorizing experience is there other than robbery or rape at gunpoint? Having your hard-earned home “stolen”? Who else besides a bank could terrorize that act into a reality? … except armed insurgents. We need a word for “racketeering financial terrorists.”
Oh – one other thing I think an honest judge would need to consider, under IRS law, is if those subsidiaries are not designed for dubious purposes, exactly how much of their business would be generated from another source than BofA, and whether they are, indeed, contractors or employees.
“The IRS uses three characteristics to determine the relationship between businesses and workers:
1) Behavioral Control covers facts that show whether the business has a right to direct or control how the work is done through instructions, training or other means.
2) Financial Control covers facts that show whether the business has a right to direct or control the financial and business aspects of the worker’s job.
3) Type of Relationship factor relates to how the workers and the business owner perceive their relationship.
If you have the right to control or direct not only what is to be done, but also how it is to be done, then your workers are most likely employees.
If you can direct or control only the result of the work done — and not the means and methods of accomplishing the result — then your workers are probably independent contractors.
Employers who misclassify workers as independent contractors can end up with substantial tax bills. Additionally, they can face penalties for failing to pay employment taxes and for failing to file required tax forms.
Workers can avoid higher tax bills and lost benefits if they know their proper status.”
So, if they are employees, BofA may not have grounds to charge fees for any costs incurred by the “subsidiaries”. If they are contractors and the fees are justifiable, then BofA would need prove it has no direct control over the functionary or financial operations of the subsidiaries. I doubt that could be easily done.
If BofA has claimed the employees as contractors and BofA has a proven influence over the company’s functionary and financial aspects, the IRS may consider a breach has occurred and BofA could become liable for employees’ back wages, benefits, back taxes, and penalties – and face another RICO charge for violations under Chapter 95 section 1956(a)(1)(A)(ii) and (B)(ii) as well as Title 18 of USC § 371. IOW, they may have committed tax evasion through an attempt to defraud the United States.
Some courts may wobble around finding in favor of the borrower and be reluctant to fully consider our cases or that of an employee cheated out of their just compensation, but when it’s the FedGov’s ox in danger of being gored, it’s strange how suddenly their ears become erect.
FWIW, see the top paragraph of page 26 of Diane Thompson’s testimony here:
stopforeclosurefraud.com/2010/11/17/testimony-of-diane-e-thompson-before-the-senate-banking-housing-committee/
“What keeps you awake at night?“